Luger Lanyards and Shoulder Straps

[George Anderson]

Have any of the members ever seen a canvas or webbing strap for a WWI Luger? I have forwarded some photos taken from a photo I own of a trench raiding squad of Wuertembers with three Canadian POW's. All but two of the Germans are armed with P08's that are attached to straps and carried in the right pocket of their tunics. It's interesting to note that one of the Germans wears the swallow tails of a musician...no R.E.M.F.ers in that army!

I also sent Jerry a photo of a lanyard acquired in Germany this past year. It's purported to be for a Luger but who knows...why not a P38?

I hope Jerry will be able to post these photos for me.

[lugerholsterrepair]

...Photo from the Canadian Army Museum, compliments of George Anderson

[George Anderson]

Jerry, thanks for the help posting the photos.

[lugerholsterrepair]

George, Fascinating photo's and a great example of an original period lanyard.

I believe the Soldiers are using bread bag straps.

I think your lanyard tab would be too wide to use on a P-38. Do you know if it will fit thru the lanyard loop of one? Jerry Burney

[Edward Tinker]

hey Jerry, I saw the term "bread bag" in Still's Imperial. Is it literally or originally what they carried bread in or just a name?

[Garfield]

Jerry,

Good eye! That was exactly my impression. Check out the 4th pic down and note the detail of the leather/metal attachment at the lanyanrd loop.

[Garfield]

Ed: I am certain that they did carry bread in them as it was basically a rations bag. The "bread bag" has been around a long time, existing in virtually the same design through WWI, WWII and used by both the East and West German forces thereafter. Every foot shoulder was issued one. It was a water repellant canvas bag used by the troop to carry his rations and small items; fat container, fork-spoon, tablet-fuel stove, the individual weapons cleaning kit, dust googles,flashlight, trench candle, compass, field cap, extra matches, tabacco, playing cards, or anything else that wasn't put in the tunic pocket. It had loops for attachment to the cartridge belt. An all-purpose shoulder strap was also provided, however, they seemed to be used for a myriad of other purposes.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Garfield, Good discription of the German Soldiers bread bag! During WW1 loaves of bread were a staple and the soldier would be issued either a whole or a portion of a loaf to last a certain time. THe bread bag was his storage place for this and other rations issued. German bread at the time is not what you might imagine. Dense and hard, rye or black. Roadkill could probably discribe it a little better. I think his German born Wife has a shop where she bakes German bread. Wish I had some! Jerry Burney

[John Sabato]

Jerry,

I lived in Europe for almost 7 years, and with the exception of the german bread called "broetchen" I found most european bread to be best described as "ruffage"

europeans would cringe to think of eating the so-called "white bread" that this nation eats...

I too miss that european bread with the homemade taste and texture...

Got Butter?

[Roadkill]

John, Jerry
Send me a home mailing address offline. Got a few more minutes now, I've got a breadbag with strap I picked up somewhere. Maybe I can find it. Will look later. German bread is baked in round/eliptical (nearly round, Ed) loaves with a thick overall crust. They average about 2-2 1/2 lbs. A standard German WWI/II field ration was thick sliced bread and butter or meat paste which came in tubes. The bread was thickly sliced and is quite substantial. Field kitchens baked it on site or its was sent up from rear areas. It can last for up to two weeks without going bad in cool weather and indefinitely when frozen which it does well. Soldiers called them "white mice" when the mould would finally grow on them, they would simply trim the bread down to the nonspoiled part. Standard issue was the bread bag, the tubed rations, and a good knife to cut the bread. There are several types of bread. Now back to the subject. The bread bag strap had clips on each end similar to those on the US H harness, a spring tension type. The strap is double stitched canvas material. I've got a duffel bag packed with old web gear, I think its there.

Nope, just looked. My son in SC in the USAF has it, (he just called, going on a trip and can't say where or for how long ) uses it for a lunch bag. I did find three Vietnam lightweight rucksacks, my binoculars, and a 9mm I swear I sold. No wonder Ken hadn't paid me for it.

RK

[lugerholsterrepair]

Roadkill, Can't find your address handy...

Jerry Burney
0636 Scenic Lane
Howard, CO 81233

[Edward Tinker]

No, I miss german bread too, but have had some in America that is close. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Bread bags sound an awful lot like the new NBC bags that guys carried on their belt the last couple of years.

[Roadkill]

Been looking at this great photo again, what are the epaulet type insignia on the soldier kneeling in the left foreground? He is also wearing a different tunic than the others, his has three buttons on each sleeve. There are two styles of hats and no helmets. Also no holsters present, all have their Lugers in their pocket. The straps are run under the epaulet straps on their right shoulder, possibly hooking to their belt or a belt loop. No visible canteens, ammo pouches, ect., no knives present. Three of have no buttons on their coat. Interesting?

RK

[Garfield]

RK:

As George pointed out, the fellow on the front left wears shoulder insignia of the musician corps. I believe that all have buttons on their tunics, however, some have a later tunic that has the buttons covered.

[George Anderson]

Garfield is right, I date this photo as 1915 or later because the blokes without buttons are wearing the m1915 tunic. Those with buttons exposed and the Brandenburg cuffs are m1910.

No canteens, blades or holsters because they have just returned from a trench raiding party. You can bet your --- that their left pockets are stuffed with 08 magazines...probably not matching!

[lugerholsterrepair]

Period photo's are a great way to study soldiers. I have always been surprised on one has ever published a book on just period photo's. Interesting group...The captured soldiers still seem to have some of their gear. Jerry Burney

[Roadkill]

What amazes me about period war photos is human nature prevaling in the most astounding conditions. These men are young. In their time they were the most seasoned ruthless killers imaginable. Most likely within the last two hours of this photo, this same group of men, different only in circumstance and nationality, were trying to remorsely kill each other. Some of both groups probably were killed by the very men standing there. And yet they all stand there passively, some actually touching, completely removed from a horrendous environment which placed all of them in the vicinity of immediate violent death within 100 yards, to passively have a picture taken.

RK

[Edward Tinker]

Jerry and RK, I too love these period photos, they always capture my attention in WW1 / 2 books. Seeing how gear is actually worn, the wondering who was KIA, POW etc., is a interesting and horrifying subject.

In Belgium in Houffalize, Belgium, there is a Tiger tank, went off of the road, so it was abandoned, now it is in a small pedestal at the beginning of the town. Always makes me wonder about the crew. There are period photos of the area and the tank in the ditch upside down. Very interesting, there are lots of museums through the Belgium countryside, one was in a small town with lots of captured and found items from the offensive and the war. Lugers, P38â??s, Thompsonâ??s, yes, I just love the small museums.