Significance of suffix

submarine vet · 12-12-2002, 12:27 PM

Just wondering....what is the significance of suffix? Were these on military AND commercial models. Mine is a stylized "b" under barrel on a 1916 DWM Artillery.

Thanks

Frank · 12-12-2002, 01:33 PM

Hi Sub Vet, The serial number is that which appears on the frame front, just below the barrel. If the number has a script letter, that letter is part of the serial number.

In other words, if you have a numeric of 1234 and an alphs, script letter of "k", then the serial number of your pistol is 1234k. If the script letter is not present, then your serial number would be just 1234.

unspellable · 12-12-2002, 01:38 PM

The suffix is quite simply, part of the serial number. The numbers were used in blocks running from 1 to 10000 and then repeated. So the second block is 1-a to 10000-a, the third 1-b to 10000-b and so on. The chamber date must also be included as in time the letters are also repeated. So the complete serial number of your Luger is 1916-XXXX-b.

Make it a point when buying or selling a military Luger to have the complete serial number on the paper work. You don't want to buy 1916-1234-b and then get into hot water over 1917-1234-c being stolen or used in a stickup just because somebody thinks the serial number is just 1234 and they are both the same pistol.

Doubs · 12-12-2002, 10:00 PM

I would add barrel length and model to that serial number/date and also maker.

As an example, lets use 1916 as our date. There is a standard 4" barrel 1916 DWM serial number 1234b, an Artillery model 1916 DWM serial number 1234b AND an Erfurt standard 4" barrel 1916 serial number 1234b. If the pistol has unit markings, I'd record those as well.

Dwight Gruber · 12-13-2002, 02:32 AM

The previously expressed wisdom is good advice.

To answer your original question, though, depending on the period of manufacture the suffix can be found on either commercial or military weapons.

In the Imperial era, Lugers were originally manufactured without suffix; the instruction designating the 9,999 serial number block with suffix was issued in 1910. All German military P-08s after that time were so marked. Some contract Lugers, for foreign forces and destinations, were still numbered in commercial fashion.

Roughly in the middle of 1921 commercial Lugers began to be serial-numbered in the military style, beginning about 2000 in the i suffix block. This carried through into Mauser production of the v block in 1930.

The difference between miitary and commercial Lugers with suffixed serial numbers can be recognized by the presence of the crown/N proof on commercial (and some Police) guns, and various military proofs on military guns.

Material extracted and condensed from Still, "Wewimar Lugers".

--Dwight

Lugerdoc · 12-13-2002, 08:29 AM

Even though the above comments are helpful, I don't consider any of them complete. In addition to the Manufacturer, date and serial number with suffix, if present, I feel that it is necessary to include the variation, either as identified in Lugers at Randon or in Still's series of books (they do differ a bit). To take a previous example of a DWM 1908 or 1909 Military with an undated chamber, which some confuse with being commerical production: I would identify as a DWM First Issue Military PO8 (indicates 9mm 4" barrel) #1234ns (no suffix), a or b. Tom H.

12-13-2002, 08:29 AM	#6
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Even though the above comments are helpful, I don't consider any of them complete. In addition to the Manufacturer, date and serial number with suffix, if present, I feel that it is necessary to include the variation, either as identified in Lugers at Randon or in Still's series of books (they do differ a bit). To take a previous example of a DWM 1908 or 1909 Military with an undated chamber, which some confuse with being commerical production: I would identify as a DWM First Issue Military PO8 (indicates 9mm 4" barrel) #1234ns (no suffix), a or b. Tom H. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

12-12-2002, 12:27 PM	#1
submarine vet User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Redlands, CA Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Significance of suffix Just wondering....what is the significance of suffix? Were these on military AND commercial models. Mine is a stylized "b" under barrel on a 1916 DWM Artillery. Thanks

12-12-2002, 01:33 PM	#2
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Hi Sub Vet, The serial number is that which appears on the frame front, just below the barrel. If the number has a script letter, that letter is part of the serial number. In other words, if you have a numeric of 1234 and an alphs, script letter of "k", then the serial number of your pistol is 1234k. If the script letter is not present, then your serial number would be just 1234.

12-12-2002, 01:38 PM	#3
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 10 Posts	The suffix is quite simply, part of the serial number. The numbers were used in blocks running from 1 to 10000 and then repeated. So the second block is 1-a to 10000-a, the third 1-b to 10000-b and so on. The chamber date must also be included as in time the letters are also repeated. So the complete serial number of your Luger is 1916-XXXX-b. Make it a point when buying or selling a military Luger to have the complete serial number on the paper work. You don't want to buy 1916-1234-b and then get into hot water over 1917-1234-c being stolen or used in a stickup just because somebody thinks the serial number is just 1234 and they are both the same pistol.

12-12-2002, 10:00 PM	#4
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,614 Times in 525 Posts	I would add barrel length and model to that serial number/date and also maker. As an example, lets use 1916 as our date. There is a standard 4" barrel 1916 DWM serial number 1234b, an Artillery model 1916 DWM serial number 1234b AND an Erfurt standard 4" barrel 1916 serial number 1234b. If the pistol has unit markings, I'd record those as well.

12-13-2002, 02:32 AM	#5
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	The previously expressed wisdom is good advice. To answer your original question, though, depending on the period of manufacture the suffix can be found on either commercial or military weapons. In the Imperial era, Lugers were originally manufactured without suffix; the instruction designating the 9,999 serial number block with suffix was issued in 1910. All German military P-08s after that time were so marked. Some contract Lugers, for foreign forces and destinations, were still numbered in commercial fashion. Roughly in the middle of 1921 commercial Lugers began to be serial-numbered in the military style, beginning about 2000 in the i suffix block. This carried through into Mauser production of the v block in 1930. The difference between miitary and commercial Lugers with suffixed serial numbers can be recognized by the presence of the crown/N proof on commercial (and some Police) guns, and various military proofs on military guns. Material extracted and condensed from Still, "Wewimar Lugers". --Dwight