Finnish Luger rev a

Dick Herman · 07-09-2017, 11:55 PM

In the early 1920s Finland tried to purchase Lugers from DWM. The IMKK military pistol restrictions forced Finland to purchase the Lugers with 3-3/4 inch (95mm) long barrels and chambered in 7.65mm Parabellum.

Finland adopted Parabellum Pistooli 23 (m/23) for service in the Suomen Armeija (SA). Finland purchased a total of 8,000 Luger's from DWM in Germany. Pistols in the earliest shipments were delivered between 1923 and 1928 with serial number suffix ranging from k into q. Later pistols delivered between 1928 and 1930 had the serial number suffix ranging from r into t.

This Finnish m/23 example has the commercial Crown over N proof on the left side of the receiver adjacent to an inverted SA property marking. The serial number is 9276r which was probably manufactured in 1928. The wooden magazine knob has a SA property marking stamped above a non matching serial number. This pistol has a 3-7/8 inch (98mm) barrel chambered for 7.65mm Parabellum.

The Finnish weapons experienced hard usage and arsenal reworking. This Luger example is a typical reworked Finnish m/23 with mixed numbered parts. An additional rework feature is on the underside of the breech block has an arsenal drilled hole for venting gas. Presumably the hole is to vent gas from a ruptured cartridge primer. The rear sight slot has also been machined from a sharp v to a wide u.

The m/23 served Finland through two wars against the Soviet Union; the Winter War of 1939–1940 and the Continuation War of 1941–1944. The m/23 also saw service during the Lapland War of 1944–1945 forcing the Germans to withdraw from northern Finland.

The following pictures illustrate the Finnish m/23 Parabellum complete with an early SA rig. These pistols were in service into the 1980s. While this pistol is an variation of a very common commercial Luger the Finnish application has a long history that experienced harsh usage. This application is a testament to the ruggedness and serviceability of the Luger pistol.

Dick Herman · 07-09-2017, 11:58 PM

Continued with the Luger Rigs and Tools.

DonVoigt · 07-10-2017, 09:33 AM

Dick,
thanks for the good info and great pictures.

The long history of luger use by and in Finland should give food for thought to the experts that frequently opine about the fragile and finicky luger! Near 60 year history of hard use in a tough climate speaks to the reliability of the system.

hayhugh · 07-10-2017, 10:53 AM

Dick, would you consider the letter in this SN a "p" or an "r" or?

Edward Tinker · 07-10-2017, 11:20 AM

Dick, nice write up. I personally like the 5 inch Tikka barreled ones, but yours is very nice, interesting that the SA is upside down.

I also like the mag

Ed

Dick Herman · 07-10-2017, 12:34 PM

Hugh,
It is hard for me to chose from the picture if it is a p or r. Comparing to the Suffix data sheet in Technical Information there so much similarity.

Ed,
I also like longer barrel Lugers. But this rig assembly started with the SA stock and then the SA holster. I was happy to locate this m/23 with a 3-7/8 inch barrel to fit the holster.

rhuff · 07-10-2017, 02:23 PM

Thank you for the history lesson and the great photos. I have never seen(I don't believe) a complete Finnish Luger assembly. I learned something today.

DonVoigt · 07-10-2017, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayhugh

Dick, would you consider the letter in this SN a "p" or an "r" or?

I'm not Dick,
but it is a "P".
The "r" is not shaped like that.

Dwight Gruber · 07-10-2017, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhuff

Thank you for the history lesson and the great photos. I have never seen(I don't believe) a complete Finnish Luger assembly. I learned something today.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...ht=finnish+rig

--Dwight

jussi16 · 07-11-2017, 08:21 AM

Hello!

A nice rig, but the cleaning rod is a part of the rifle cleaning kit.
An original is now for sale on eBay. Not mine.
Thanks for showing.

rhuff · 07-11-2017, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwight Gruber

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...ht=finnish+rig

--Dwight

Thank you Dwight....loss of memory is a terrible, but natural, thing.

Kyrie · 07-11-2017, 04:00 PM

Dick,

Thank you for the marvelous post – this really takes me back in time.

I’d always wanted a representative example from the Finn contract, and was pleasantly surprised when Century Arms International bought a bunch when the Finns liquidated back in the late 1980s, early 1990s:

This is the one I picked up (along with something like a thousand rounds of ammunition):

Best,

Kyrie

Dick Herman · 07-11-2017, 10:11 PM

Juha,
Thank you for the cleaning rod information. The displayed rod came with the holster. I thought that the rod is too long for the holster.

stg44fan · 07-13-2017, 01:03 AM

Thanks for sharing. That is a terrific looking rig! I am a big fan of the Finnish Lugers.

Where did you find the info regarding the serial number suffix ranges for the Finland contract Lugers? I only ask because my Finnish M23 is in the "i" suffix.

Dick Herman · 07-13-2017, 12:51 PM

I believe that information came from "Borchardt & Luger Automatic Pistols" by Joachim Gortz & Dr. Geoffrey Sturgess. This is a fantastic reference source on the Luger.

Two other references that I used were “The Luger Story” by John Walters and "Handguns of the World" by Rd Ezell.

stg44fan · 07-13-2017, 10:38 PM

Thank you. The Gortz & Sturgess books have been on my list for awhile now.

Dick Herman · 04-20-2019, 10:01 PM

Another Finnish m/23 rig.

kurusu · 04-21-2019, 08:36 AM

I have one thing to say. Fine as they are, the Finnish contrat Lugers are not P.08s.

Dick Herman · 04-21-2019, 12:07 PM

You are correct, the Finnish m/23 Luger was in harsh service for 57 years. The P.08 served for 37 years.
The m/23 was the shorter barreled 7.65mm Parabellum that DWM was allowed to manufacture under the Versailles treaty. Would you prefer that this be placed in the Commercial Luger section?

sheepherder · 04-21-2019, 12:53 PM

Kyrie's post here is an excellent example of why we don't recommend linking off-site pictures...

07-09-2017, 11:55 PM	#1
Dick Herman User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 302 Thanks: 496 Thanked 354 Times in 138 Posts	Finnish Luger rev a In the early 1920s Finland tried to purchase Lugers from DWM. The IMKK military pistol restrictions forced Finland to purchase the Lugers with 3-3/4 inch (95mm) long barrels and chambered in 7.65mm Parabellum. Finland adopted Parabellum Pistooli 23 (m/23) for service in the Suomen Armeija (SA). Finland purchased a total of 8,000 Luger's from DWM in Germany. Pistols in the earliest shipments were delivered between 1923 and 1928 with serial number suffix ranging from k into q. Later pistols delivered between 1928 and 1930 had the serial number suffix ranging from r into t. This Finnish m/23 example has the commercial Crown over N proof on the left side of the receiver adjacent to an inverted SA property marking. The serial number is 9276r which was probably manufactured in 1928. The wooden magazine knob has a SA property marking stamped above a non matching serial number. This pistol has a 3-7/8 inch (98mm) barrel chambered for 7.65mm Parabellum. The Finnish weapons experienced hard usage and arsenal reworking. This Luger example is a typical reworked Finnish m/23 with mixed numbered parts. An additional rework feature is on the underside of the breech block has an arsenal drilled hole for venting gas. Presumably the hole is to vent gas from a ruptured cartridge primer. The rear sight slot has also been machined from a sharp v to a wide u. The m/23 served Finland through two wars against the Soviet Union; the Winter War of 1939–1940 and the Continuation War of 1941–1944. The m/23 also saw service during the Lapland War of 1944–1945 forcing the Germans to withdraw from northern Finland. The following pictures illustrate the Finnish m/23 Parabellum complete with an early SA rig. These pistols were in service into the 1980s. While this pistol is an variation of a very common commercial Luger the Finnish application has a long history that experienced harsh usage. This application is a testament to the ruggedness and serviceability of the Luger pistol. Attached Thumbnails

07-09-2017, 11:58 PM	#2
Dick Herman User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 302 Thanks: 496 Thanked 354 Times in 138 Posts	Finnish Luger rev a Continued with the Luger Rigs and Tools. Attached Thumbnails

07-10-2017, 09:33 AM	#3
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,440 Thanked 4,348 Times in 2,038 Posts	Dick, thanks for the good info and great pictures. The long history of luger use by and in Finland should give food for thought to the experts that frequently opine about the fragile and finicky luger! Near 60 year history of hard use in a tough climate speaks to the reliability of the system. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

07-10-2017, 10:53 AM	#4
hayhugh User Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Florida/Penna Posts: 884 Thanks: 851 Thanked 507 Times in 270 Posts	Dick, would you consider the letter in this SN a "p" or an "r" or? Attached Thumbnails

04-21-2019, 12:07 PM	#19
Dick Herman User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 302 Thanks: 496 Thanked 354 Times in 138 Posts	You are correct, the Finnish m/23 Luger was in harsh service for 57 years. The P.08 served for 37 years. The m/23 was the shorter barreled 7.65mm Parabellum that DWM was allowed to manufacture under the Versailles treaty. Would you prefer that this be placed in the Commercial Luger section? Last edited by Dick Herman; 04-21-2019 at 12:20 PM. Reason: Versailles treaty

07-10-2017, 11:20 AM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,912 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,502 Times in 2,077 Posts	Dick, nice write up. I personally like the 5 inch Tikka barreled ones, but yours is very nice, interesting that the SA is upside down. I also like the mag Ed

07-10-2017, 12:34 PM	#6
Dick Herman User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 302 Thanks: 496 Thanked 354 Times in 138 Posts	Hugh, It is hard for me to chose from the picture if it is a p or r. Comparing to the Suffix data sheet in Technical Information there so much similarity. Ed, I also like longer barrel Lugers. But this rig assembly started with the SA stock and then the SA holster. I was happy to locate this m/23 with a 3-7/8 inch barrel to fit the holster.

07-10-2017, 02:23 PM	#7
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,272 Thanks: 2,690 Thanked 959 Times in 705 Posts	Thank you for the history lesson and the great photos. I have never seen(I don't believe) a complete Finnish Luger assembly. I learned something today.

07-11-2017, 08:21 AM	#10
jussi16 User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Finland Posts: 250 Thanks: 77 Thanked 51 Times in 31 Posts	Hello! A nice rig, but the cleaning rod is a part of the rifle cleaning kit. An original is now for sale on eBay. Not mine. Thanks for showing.

07-11-2017, 04:00 PM	#12
Kyrie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 757 Thanks: 0 Thanked 212 Times in 101 Posts	Dick, Thank you for the marvelous post – this really takes me back in time. I’d always wanted a representative example from the Finn contract, and was pleasantly surprised when Century Arms International bought a bunch when the Finns liquidated back in the late 1980s, early 1990s: This is the one I picked up (along with something like a thousand rounds of ammunition): Best, Kyrie

07-11-2017, 10:11 PM	#13
Dick Herman User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 302 Thanks: 496 Thanked 354 Times in 138 Posts	Juha, Thank you for the cleaning rod information. The displayed rod came with the holster. I thought that the rod is too long for the holster.

07-13-2017, 01:03 AM	#14
stg44fan User Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Portland OR Posts: 81 Thanks: 42 Thanked 49 Times in 27 Posts	Thanks for sharing. That is a terrific looking rig! I am a big fan of the Finnish Lugers. Where did you find the info regarding the serial number suffix ranges for the Finland contract Lugers? I only ask because my Finnish M23 is in the "i" suffix.

07-13-2017, 12:51 PM	#15
Dick Herman User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 302 Thanks: 496 Thanked 354 Times in 138 Posts	I believe that information came from "Borchardt & Luger Automatic Pistols" by Joachim Gortz & Dr. Geoffrey Sturgess. This is a fantastic reference source on the Luger. Two other references that I used were “The Luger Story” by John Walters and "Handguns of the World" by Rd Ezell.

07-13-2017, 10:38 PM	#16
stg44fan User Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Portland OR Posts: 81 Thanks: 42 Thanked 49 Times in 27 Posts	Thank you. The Gortz & Sturgess books have been on my list for awhile now.

04-20-2019, 10:01 PM	#17
Dick Herman User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 302 Thanks: 496 Thanked 354 Times in 138 Posts	Another Finnish m/23 rig.

04-21-2019, 08:36 AM	#18
kurusu User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,225 Thanks: 2,679 Thanked 929 Times in 509 Posts	I have one thing to say. Fine as they are, the Finnish contrat Lugers are not P.08s.

04-21-2019, 12:53 PM	#20
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	Kyrie's post here is an excellent example of why we don't recommend linking off-site pictures... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...