BYF 42 vet bring back?

[th]

I picked up a BYF42 about 13 years ago at a gun store the man had it for sale for a lady at 450.00 He told me it was a vet bring back.I ask him if he would take 400.00 he said he would ask. She came back with 425.00 I told him i would take it and ask him to ask her if she could give me any info on the pistol She said her husband was in Europe in the Army brought 2 Lugers back won one in a poker game coming back the other he picked up in Europe He sold the one Luger(Poker game luger) for a riding lawn mower in the 60's But wanted to keep the one he picked up which I bought.She said he was proud of the pistol and that is all she knew. She did not want any guns in the house and wanted this one sold since her husband had pass away. I would like to post pictures But do not know how? It is a BYF42 serial # 69xxh wood grips blueing seems right light pitting on one side but most of the blueing is there.My question is about what month in 42 was this gun made? And about what value does this gun have?...I know pictures would help if i could send someone some pictures I would be glad too. Since I have bought other vet bring back that have not been correct I would like to know if this one is right. Atleast i did not hear the gun was picked up from a dead nazi officer which is what i get all the time when i ask for history of a gun

thanks
th

Pictures added by EBT




Bigger pictures, so others could judge on if it has been messed with, EBT
Luger1
Luger1b
Luger1c

[Edward Tinker]

A quick glance at Jans 3rd Reich book shows me that 113,000 were made that year, so if you average that each group of serial numbers is 10,000, and h is the 9th grouping (no letter, a, b, c, d, e, f, g, h), and it says that j is not used, then k, l, m and production ended in the n block late in 42. So I would imagine that h is middle of the year, probably later than sooner?

Others can probably give you a better guess?

[tracyp]

If you said about 10,000 per month, then it would be around September.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Interesting to speculate about what month a pistol might have been made but no matter how you calculate it, perhaps the frame was made in a large batch and other parts made in another month and the whole assembled at a later date. But TH, why would you care? Just idle curiosity or some other theory? Inquiring minds want to know!

On the captured Luger coming off of a dead officer, There is an interesting photo on Ebay of a WW1 officer posing for a studio photo and indeed he is wearing a Luger!

Hard to give this pistol a value but I would guess from what I see, $800.00 to $1200,00 depending on many things. Without a close inspection it would be difficult to determine.

Jerry Burney

[th]

Why the month I am just curious I thought they might have a record of that I really guess i should have ask early, mid or late 42... I Like to find out everything i can about the pistol I own. And i know there were pistols taken off of dead nazi officers I have heard that story all of the time though I feel like a good deal of the vet bring backs were at the end of the war. I have talked with alot of vets and just about all of them picked them up at the end of the war..There reason was if they picked it up they would have to carry it But I am sure there was alot of pistols taken off of officers. thanks for the post and your help Do you repair Luger holster?

th

[John Sabato]

th,

Jerry Burney won't toot his own horn but he is probably the best Luger holster restoration expert on the planet. He can build a luger holster from scratch.

[max2cam]

While it makes a better story to have taken a Luger from "a Nazi officer," most souvenir bring-backs were probably picked up off the ground or from piles of turned in weapons.

Besides, weren't more Lugers issued to support units and machine gun crews anyway? Didn't officers prefer smaller Pistolen?

[th]

Thanks I have a luger holster that is probally beyond repaired.. the whole top was cut off(missing) I think the GI who brought the holster back was trying to make a 45cal holster(are who knows what he was thinking)It might be cheaper to just find another holster I know that they(holsters) are expensive what price do they run and is this holster worth messing with? Or just leave it alone?

[John Sabato]

Send or email good photographs of the holster to Lugerholsterrepair and he can tell you if it is worth salvaging...

[th]

John thanks i sent him some pic the top flap is missing and one strap on back is missing the holster is dated 1940 it is a HANSCROMER NEU-UUM waffenampt(sp) 788 very clear markings thanks again

[G.W. Gill]

T.H.,fellow forum member Arron points out a pair of black bakelite grips that would go good with your pistol. I have #6229H and it has the bakelite grips that match the mag bottom. If you would like to see them go to luger classified. My thanks to Arron.

[Garfield]

th:

Either wood or black bakelite grips would be proper on your byf 42. If you remove the grips, be very careful when you remove the left grip as it is very easy to to chip the upper rear corner behind th safet. The grips should, but not always, have an eagle/135 stamp on them and, perhaps, the last 2 digets of the serial #. Again, the grips were not always stamped. If there is an eagle acceptance stamp that is not 135 or numbers that do not match the last two digets of the serial # on your gun, the grips were not issued with your pistol and are replace ments. If they are stamped with only a 42 then the are, no doubt, armourors(sp) replacements.

[th]

G.W. Gill & Garfeild thanks I always like the black grips better over the wood..but if my grips are correct I want to keep these.Since that is what it came with. I did take them off(grips) and there was nothing marked in them they were plain I wanted to ask you about this Black Widow (black grips)that I have heard about.. Were they issed to some certain troops are is that something made up...did the BYF42 being the last year go to any special units are is that made up too. Thanks and let me know if my grips are correct. I think Garfield, you said that they were if they had no marks on them at all...again thanks

[LP08]

Look very closely at the backs of those grips as there is a good chance there is a faint Eagle/135 inspection stamp AND the last two digits of the pistol serial number--these grips were fitted uniquely to each pistol and you don't want to switch original grips.

The black plastic grips were not issued to special units. In fact, the nickname "black widow" is an American marketing invention I am told originated in the 1960s. To the Germans, these were good manufacturing replacements for wood grips and probably saved money. Shortcuts in mag bottoms and grips as well as metal finishing were pursued to speed and cheapen production.

The very last lugers from regular production (byf42's) were delivered to Portugal as best as anyone can tell--about 4000 of the very last lugers.

Actual use of lugers was usually by front-line personnel (9mm is a combat caliber) for whom rifles were too cumbersome to carry--motorcycle messengers, combat police, machine gunners, anti-tank gunners, group leaders, and paratroopers. Officers carried them but if not in front line duty most officers appear in photos with 7.65 pistols.

[th]

LP08 thanks I did look very closely there is no marks under the grips whatsoever If they are plain is that not correct? were these replacement grips? the fit on my grips seems perfect and they are well made.Let me know because i will probally buy the black grips on ebay if my are not to be on this P08

[Marvin]

th,

The grips on your "byf" 42 sound like they are correct. The wood grips were usually not numbered to the pistol and most did not have the Waffenamt Stamp on them. At this time, with the Luger goinf our of full scale production, i assume they saved time not nmbering or checking the grips.

Either the wood grips that you have, or a set of Original plastic grips would be appropriate for your pistol.

Marvin

[MauserLugers]

Hi Marvin,
Your reply: "The wood grips were usually not numbered to the pistol and most did not have the Waffenamt Stamp on them. At this time, with the Luger goinf our of full scale production, i assume they saved time not nmbering or checking the grips," IS NOT CORRECT!

I do not know where you got your information, but your statement is totally false. It is in fact just reversed. Almost all of the byf 42's have the last two digits on the inside of the wood grips and almost all of them have the eagle 135 acceptance proof. In fact, it would be the exception to find an original issued byf 42 rig that did not have the last two digits and the eagle 135 proof on them, or at least one of them. Each year and variation are different and one has to consider each seperately.

Data sheets show this to be the case as do collectors that collect these variations. It must be very confusing for the new collectors to post here and get numerous somewhat different answers as they do not know what to accept and what not to. Anyway, use the information, or reject it, (as I never wrote a book, and I'm not in Germany and that seems to be the requirement to have any information accepted anymore), but don't go by everything that is printed in a book. Good collecting!

[Garfield]

th:

Personally, I would not replace your wooden grips. They look right, fit your pistol and they came with it. While they may be the exception to the rule that byf42 grips usually have the last two digets of the serial # and, or, a E/135 stamped on the inside, there are exceptions to the rule. Look on the inside of the grips along the edges and compare the pressure marks left by the grip straps and oil. If these are there and match up, those grips have been on a long time. It is, of course, your pistol, however, IMHO, it is better to have the original equipment on your pistol than a re[placement just because it looks nice. You also run the risk that the black plastic replacements will not be original.

Marvin:

Don't understand what you mean by, "saved time not....Checkering the grips."? Never seen a luger issued w/o checkered grips.

[LP08]

Each byf42 I have owned had the s/n 2-digits on the reverse of the grips, same for byf41's. It is possible your grips are later replacements or were installed without s/n's. Lots of things are possible but from the appearance in the photo and practice in 1942, there is no evidence to suggest these are anything other than the factory original grips. If you wish to shoot this luger, you should substitute non-historic grips to protect these originals. The original grips are part of the factory original parts and, if damaged (easy to do if you shoot this), the gun's value will decline precipitously and be unrecoverable.

There does seem to be a lot of misinformation shared on the internet though most of it is well-intentioned. I encourage people who post information to state the support for their claims, cite reference publications, or offer appropriate cautions when making guesses. It is very confusing to new collectors to hear that grips are sn'd, not sn'd, black bakelite, wood, and whatever else. On Tuco's forum, recently, a new luger collector asked if his 1917 luger was original and valuable and was told it should have waffen stamps of the form "WaNxxx" and that it should not have gone through WW2 without getting nazi-stamped and that the military magazines should be marked "1" or "2". Each of those statements is incorrect but how can a new collector know this. It turns out the pistol was a police luger and DID have a correct "2" marked police magazine and, of course, was not marked with WW2-era waffen stamps. He had a nice original WW1 pistol that had gone on to WW2-era police use. If he paid attention to the internet comments, he might have thought he had some garage gunsmith pistol.

Help out the new people with good information.

[th]

Thanks for all the help from all of you I know my father-in law brought home a G43 made by Walther Everyone said that the correct handguard was made out of wood only NO Durfol plastic handguards go on a walther only wood....Well his is plastic I know without a dought that is how that G43 came back he did not switch them. He is still alive today and he will tell you that is how he picked it up in Europe The grips on this pistol look like they have been on a long time: In fact I do not think they have been removed since they left the factory. The lady I bought it from said that her husband never fired the gun had it put up and never got it out...I guess it will be a mystery if lugers were stamp or not...Just curious has anyone ever heard of them not being numbered?