1940 holster question

[Dave Sanders]

When was the P08 put on the back of holsters? Was it 1940 on or what? I have seen some 1940's with out and some whith. What is the general rule of thumb? Thanks.
Dave

[Edward Tinker]

Dave good question, but I don't know!!

I'll be waiting to hear also,

Ed

[lugerholsterrepair]

I believe it was in 1939. This was in direct response to the issue of the P-38( adopted by the German Army in 1938) and I am sure the germans found the size, shape of the holsters were similar. This directive might not have been acted on untill 1940 as the suppliers were sometimes slow to get the word or the stamps necessary to put it on. Not only that but depending on the time of year the directive was sent down it may have been many holsters were already made or in production. The stamp would then have to be phased into current production. At this same time (1940) it was directed that the manufacturers codes be used. You will often see full manufacturers names used in 1940 and beyond even though it was a requirement to use three letter codes.Why? Because at the time Germany was a giant buracracy with many competing offices. There was some confusion and miscommunication. The Saddlery's that made German Luger holsters were many, small and spread throughout Germany. They did not have instant communication during the war years that we take for granted today. Jerry Burney

[RockinWR]

Dave,
* I'd like to expound slightly based on my readings & understanding. Jerry is essentially correct; although, I've heard a slight variant of the rationalization.
* Fact is we have no documented answer for a definitive date as far as I know. The change was actually a transition based on stock already accepted by the Army, saddler's on-going work-in-progress/contracts, and Directive dissemination(communications) as Jerry points out.
* Today's generally accepted answer is based on observation of Vet rigs & the year-date/suffix block pistols they contained. Long time collectors observed/postulated/concluded the change to a three digit code on holsters occurred approximately mid-1940.
* This conclusion was reinforced by the Army's final acceptance of the "480" code P.38 from Walther in April, 1940. The Army actually only accepted this pistol's design in 1938; but, it took Walther a while to facilitate, tool, produce the test "0" Series to mature the Army's final P.38 configuration acceptance, and to overcome production glitches to achieve a mandatory contractural requirement of 10k pistols/month. Hence, April, 1940 as a start; but, later into 1940 before any significant quantities of P.38's made it to the field units.
* As Jerry points out, the similarity in holster designs yielded enough potential/real confusion that the Heeres directed each style of PT to be marked P.08 or P.38 respectively.
* The full maker/town/date to code/date change was made for a different reason....to deny the Allies intelligence about Axis production sources/quantities. This was likely spurred by WWII starting in earnous with the early 1940 Norway invasion & the Western front starting in May, 1940. More units in foreign territory; thus, more examples from which to garner intelligence.
* Finally, there always seems to be the 5% who either don't get or don't want to get "the word". A few Luger holster examples, well into and after 1941, have been seen still displaying full maker's data. Surprisingly, I think these are also found with Waffen Inspection acceptance stamps. Maybe Schnapps was involved!!
* Trust this adds insight to your query.
Respectfully,
Bob

[lugerholsterrepair]

Bob, Nicely put. I appreciate the expanded and knowledgable viewpoint. Thanks! Jerry Burney

[Dave Sanders]

Thank you gentlemen. That answers my question. I knew I could find the answer here.
Dave