War-Hope Deluxe

wterrell · 10-08-2002, 09:26 PM

This pistol is AMAZING!

[quote]Luger war-hope in de luxe model
Manufacturer armament makers war-hope in Suhl. Caliber of 9 mm of Para, No. P112. later decoration from engraved and cut oak leaves on roughened reason. Edges goldtauschiert. Small articles yellow started. Grip caps from nussbaumholz with rich, plastic carved oak leaves decoration and fish skin blend, EN suite with wooden magazine conclusion. Length 22.5 cm.
Extremely complex and qualityful engraving work in the style of the gift weapons of the third realm.
<hr></blockquote>

Navy · 10-08-2002, 09:49 PM

Hi Wes and all,

What you have here is what old farts in this game call a "Cigarette gun". After the war ended and the occupation began, German gunsmiths and engravers were, for all intents, out of business as the Allied Occupation Control Comission (or title to that effect) made owning or posessing of a firearm by a German national, 100% illegal (And that is not a sick bird). Everything was turned in, from cross-bows to Panzerfausts. I have a lovely 28 gauge that came from this surrender.

Consequently, American GI's who could legally possess guns, and who loved Lugers, took them to German smiths and engravers who worked magic for a carton of ciggies.

My Father-in-Law, who was with the US Constabulary near Ulm in 1946-48, says that anyone could get the finest engraving and inlays-the customer must provide the gold-at prices ranging from a pack (simple scroll/acorns and oak leaves) to a carton (Highly specialized and chased engraving and inlays, with only the best quality materials used.)

In those heady dys, a pristine Luger brought about $10-15; but a carton of Camels would buy a German family food and shelter for about 2 weeks.

He didn't do guns, instead he did French provencial furniture. The jury is still out, but I think it is going to be a close call.
Stories from one old soldier to another.

Tom A.

<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Ron Wood · 10-08-2002, 10:10 PM

That is a beautiful gun. I had pulled the pictures off of the auction site to have the grips as a reference for some grips I would like to make some day. Love the translation program, Krieghoff becomes "war-hope"!! Literally I guess that is correct but amusing none the less. I also noted the serial number P112. According to Gibson these "P-code" commercials are pretty scarce and the Presentation Sub-variation group can be found among them. On page 199 of Gibson there is a presentation piece, P305, that was presented by Heinrich Krieghoff for the "Anniversary Prize of the German Research Institute for Small Arms in Pistol Shooting 1938". The grips on P305 are very similar to the gun at auction. Could be a presentation piece, but it is also very likely that it is a cigarette gun since the description says it is a "later decoration". Interesting.

wterrell · 10-08-2002, 10:18 PM

What do you suppose that it will fetch, Tom A and Ron?
It is starting at $3200.

Ron Wood · 10-08-2002, 10:38 PM

I have no idea, but I bet the reserve is in the neighborhood of $6K or more.

Edward Tinker · 10-08-2002, 10:53 PM

Well at first I thought I didn't like it, but the grips are a beaut and the leaves grow on you! So, Bob, I don't know, maybe I like it [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

wterrell · 10-08-2002, 11:24 PM

Ron,
I believe that you are correct. I was hoping that you had seen this pistol in person. I am always impressed with your first hand knowledge on these pieces.

A man really needs to view the pistol in person and inspect the quality of the engraving with a loop. That will really determine the value of the pistol. A lot of handsome engraving is executed by craftsmen who have the composition ability but do not have the execution skills and technique necessary for a top quality job.

10-08-2002, 09:26 PM	#1
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	War-Hope Deluxe This pistol is AMAZING! [quote]Luger war-hope in de luxe model Manufacturer armament makers war-hope in Suhl. Caliber of 9 mm of Para, No. P112. later decoration from engraved and cut oak leaves on roughened reason. Edges goldtauschiert. Small articles yellow started. Grip caps from nussbaumholz with rich, plastic carved oak leaves decoration and fish skin blend, EN suite with wooden magazine conclusion. Length 22.5 cm. Extremely complex and qualityful engraving work in the style of the gift weapons of the third realm. <hr></blockquote> __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

10-08-2002, 10:10 PM	#3
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	That is a beautiful gun. I had pulled the pictures off of the auction site to have the grips as a reference for some grips I would like to make some day. Love the translation program, Krieghoff becomes "war-hope"!! Literally I guess that is correct but amusing none the less. I also noted the serial number P112. According to Gibson these "P-code" commercials are pretty scarce and the Presentation Sub-variation group can be found among them. On page 199 of Gibson there is a presentation piece, P305, that was presented by Heinrich Krieghoff for the "Anniversary Prize of the German Research Institute for Small Arms in Pistol Shooting 1938". The grips on P305 are very similar to the gun at auction. Could be a presentation piece, but it is also very likely that it is a cigarette gun since the description says it is a "later decoration". Interesting. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

10-08-2002, 10:18 PM	#4
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	What do you suppose that it will fetch, Tom A and Ron? It is starting at $3200. __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

10-08-2002, 10:38 PM	#5
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	I have no idea, but I bet the reserve is in the neighborhood of $6K or more. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

10-08-2002, 10:53 PM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Well at first I thought I didn't like it, but the grips are a beaut and the leaves grow on you! So, Bob, I don't know, maybe I like it [img]biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-08-2002, 09:49 PM	#2
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Hi Wes and all, What you have here is what old farts in this game call a "Cigarette gun". After the war ended and the occupation began, German gunsmiths and engravers were, for all intents, out of business as the Allied Occupation Control Comission (or title to that effect) made owning or posessing of a firearm by a German national, 100% illegal (And that is not a sick bird). Everything was turned in, from cross-bows to Panzerfausts. I have a lovely 28 gauge that came from this surrender. Consequently, American GI's who could legally possess guns, and who loved Lugers, took them to German smiths and engravers who worked magic for a carton of ciggies. My Father-in-Law, who was with the US Constabulary near Ulm in 1946-48, says that anyone could get the finest engraving and inlays-the customer must provide the gold-at prices ranging from a pack (simple scroll/acorns and oak leaves) to a carton (Highly specialized and chased engraving and inlays, with only the best quality materials used.) In those heady dys, a pristine Luger brought about $10-15; but a carton of Camels would buy a German family food and shelter for about 2 weeks. He didn't do guns, instead he did French provencial furniture. The jury is still out, but I think it is going to be a close call. Stories from one old soldier to another. Tom A. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

10-08-2002, 11:24 PM	#7
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Ron, I believe that you are correct. I was hoping that you had seen this pistol in person. I am always impressed with your first hand knowledge on these pieces. A man really needs to view the pistol in person and inspect the quality of the engraving with a loop. That will really determine the value of the pistol. A lot of handsome engraving is executed by craftsmen who have the composition ability but do not have the execution skills and technique necessary for a top quality job. __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------