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Unread 04-08-2018, 06:58 PM   #1
Kyrie
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Default Another Shooter Luger Adventure

Another adventure; more surprises and more fun than last adventure.

Seller described the gun as: “Beautiful numbers matching 1916 DWM Luger 9mm pistol with one magazine (not matching) and 1941 dated black Luger holster. As you can see from the pictures, this pistol is in fantastic condition and the pistol has been re-blued and the bluing is beautiful.”

Seller also provided fourteen photos, the last seven of which were of the magazine and holster. But the first seven pictures were sufficient to see the gun was a re-blue and all visibly numbered parts were matching. Also visible in the photos, but not mentioned in the seller’s description were a (tiny) sear safety and some non-standard (but indistinguishable) markings.

At $900 and $35 shipping, I viewed it as a good deal and took delivery yesterday. This is a beautiful gun.

It is a 1916 DWM military. Matching except for magazine and hold open (haven’t checked grip panels). Bore is excellent.

At some point in time it was re-proofed. Final/definitive proof marked on barrel, barrel extension, breech block, and frame. Proof is not German military or German commercial.

At some point in time after re-proof, the pistol was beautifully re-finished (salt blue); trigger, safety, and ejector polished and left in white.

Sear relieved at some point.

Pics:























Interesting, no?

Kyrie
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Unread 04-08-2018, 08:39 PM   #2
George Anderson
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The added proofs are Belgian. Nice looking gun.
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Unread 04-09-2018, 05:31 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
The added proofs are Belgian. Nice looking gun.
Thank you, George, for your input. A Belgian nexus would go a long way toward explaining the barrel marking “CAL. 9m/mP P.V”.

The two candidates I had in mind for the unusual proof and “CAL” marking were Belgium, with Spain as a distant second choice. Spain has used “P.V.” as a proof mark, but only up to 1928, and used a “9m/m P” marking (but without the “CAL.” prefix). Spain also used a flaming bomb proof house symbol, but not with a letter in it, and there were and are (to the best of my knowledge) no Spanish proof house markings that use or used a cursive letter.

I like the Belgium connection.

The sear safety is also (at least to me) interesting. It’s shorter in length, more narrow in width, and more sedately attached to the barrel extension than are the sear safeties I’ve seen on German police guns. This Luger was also never modified for a magazine safety – not what I’d expect on a German police Luger.

Anyone out there a collector of Belgian police sidearms? Is this Luger consistent with observed Belgium police sidearms?

In my quest for shooter Lugers I seem to keep tripping over these off-the-wall Lugers. It’s actually quite exciting, at lease for me.
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Unread 04-09-2018, 09:55 AM   #4
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I'm not sure what you think is different about the sear safety?

It is not a Belgian police pistol, but a captured German police pistol - one that was re-proofed for commercial sale in or export from Belgium. The "L" in the bombe is for Liege.

Not all German police lugers received the magazine safety. The mag safety was "ordered" after the sear safety, so this piece could have received it "early"- and never returned for the mag safety addition OR it received the Mag safety after 1937, when its use was discontinued.

Any grip markings or signs of removal?

Great catch for the money, and interesting - it has sure had some history, and travels in its time.
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Unread 04-09-2018, 11:41 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by DonVoigt View Post
I'm not sure what you think is different about the sear safety?

It is not a Belgian police pistol, but a captured German police pistol - one that was re-proofed for commercial sale in or export from Belgium. The "L" in the bombe is for Liege.

Not all German police lugers received the magazine safety. The mag safety was "ordered" after the sear safety, so this piece could have received it "early"- and never returned for the mag safety addition OR it received the Mag safety after 1937, when its use was discontinued.

Any grip markings or signs of removal?

Great catch for the money, and interesting - it has sure had some history, and travels in its time.
Hello Don,

If you are unsure what I “think is different about the sear safety”, please re-read my post for my observations concerning the differences between this sear safety and all the other German Luger sear safeties I have seen.

I’m aware it is a German Luger, and is presumably a police pistol based on the observation it has a sear safety. But the different shape/size of the sear safety has me questioning whether the sear safety is German, and hence, whether it was a German police pistol. That was why I was asking if we had any collectors of Belgium police sidearms handy – so I could inquire if in their experience the sear safety might be Belgian in origin. I’m expecting a “no sear safeties on Belgium police pistols” reply, and should I get that word from a Belgium police pistol collector I have another question queued up :-)

Not sure what you asking here: “Any grip markings or signs of removal?” The full pistol left/right scans are pretty good at showing grip panel detail. Is there some area of the grip panels not shown of which you would like a pic?

Regarding your comment, ‘The "L" in the bombe is for Liege’, do you have a reference? While I’m aware of more than one Belgium proof house mark that have some similarity to the proof marks on this pistol, I’ve not seen any that were full matches. The same is true of Spanish proof house stamps; no single stamp is a match.

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Unread 04-09-2018, 02:53 PM   #6
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I should have said grip "strap", which is not shown.

The pictures are not good enough for me to see what is "different" about the sear safety, they are not all identical on German pistols.

So if it is not too much trouble, just what is "sedately" attached? Is it not riveted?

The length looks to be the same as others. if you would measure the length, then I could compare it with some of the 40 or so German police pistols with sear safety that I have.

If you have the "Official guide to Gunmarks" by Byron, you will find several Belgian proof markings, the one shown on p 124, is similar to yours(it is a drawing not a picture). That style/design proof stamp has been used on guns of foreign make, proved in Belgium since 1921.
The proof house is located in Liege, hence the "L".

I know of no one who collects Belgian police pistols, but Anthony Vanderlinden is a Belgium expert, and you could PM him through the boards.
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Unread 04-09-2018, 04:14 PM   #7
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The grip strap is unmarked.

Understand difficulty in seeing sear safety. Concentrate on fourth and fifth pictures (counting from top photo), esp. pic showing chamber marking. Sear safety is perhaps 2/3rds width of usual, is proportionally thinner, with proportionally smaller rivet, with flat rivet head.

Have Official Guide (3rd edition, Robert H. Balderson). See the mark you reference (pg 129 in 3rd edition). Cannot say I have any faith in the work, due to many, many errors and assertions w/o supporting evidence.
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Unread 04-09-2018, 09:21 PM   #8
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Faith or not, the marking is from Belgium, and L is Liege.
I'm sure you can find out more by using "Google".
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Unread 04-09-2018, 11:51 PM   #9
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Don has correctly identified the marking as Liege, Belgium, proofs. The sear safety is indeed not exactly as expected for a German police modification, but I can say with some confidence that it is not of original Belgian origin. I strongly suspect that when the gun passed through Belgian hands it was refurbished. The rivet that secures the sear safety is a high polish blue, probably because the the safety was removed and/or replaced...possibly during refurbishment or perhaps even requiring a new safety fabricated to replace a damaged/non-restorable safety.
In my opinion, the gun is a German police piece that made it's way to Belgium at some time and was afforded a measure of TLC that was deemed appropriate at the time.
At $935, I think you got a smokin' good deal...be happy!
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