Newbie needs help !

NoLuck · 09-22-2009, 08:50 PM

Hi there everyone. I just want to say that this is a great forum. So much information to digest ! This is my first post.

My dad was into Lugers and Mausers for many many years. He had a few , traded a few, got a few more (you know the drill) on his search for "that" one . He finally ended up with 2 Lugers and 1 Mauser. After he died they went to me.
They've been sitting for about 20 years since so I think it's time to figure out what I have. I'm not going to post a whole bunch of pictures and take up space so I have links to them.
I took them apart and took pictures of every proofmark and stamp I could find.
I figured that if I just asked the experts I would get more info than I'd be able to come up with on my own even if I studied all the posts on here for a long time.
I'd appreciate any information and value that you could give me about the stuff. I know this is a Luger forum , but I'll put the link to the Mauser as well. It seems there's quite a bit of crossover between the two anyway and there's probably someone who's on here that knows everything about them too !
Thanks in advance !
Erik

http://s57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...k_2006/Erfurt/

http://s57.photobucket.com/albums/g2.../1920%20Luger/

http://s57.photobucket.com/albums/g2.../Snail%20Drum/

http://s57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...k_2006/Mauser/

FNorm · 09-22-2009, 09:10 PM

Well, your first is an Erfurt Artillery. The chamber date should read 1914. The only year this factory made 23,000 of them. The second appears to be a 1920 DWM, commercial. From your photos both seem to be in excellent condition. Don't know anything about Mausers.

Wait til the 'Old Guys' comment.

FN

NoLuck · 09-23-2009, 03:21 AM

After just reading all the stuff I should have read first before posting I realize I have already broken rules ! Sorry about that .
I'll resize the pics and upload them tomorrow. Am I posting in the right place ?

oops

Ron Wood · 09-23-2009, 05:56 AM

Erik,
No problem. Welcome aboard. There are a couple of places you could post and this one is as good as any. Some folks can't access photobucket pics, plus they eventually go away. Posting on the forum keeps them active and accessable. You have some nice looking items so your pics will be well appreciated when you post them. I did notice that your artillery stock has an unusual shape. Do you know anything about that?

George Anderson · 09-23-2009, 09:06 AM

As Ron pointed out the shape of the stock is interesting. As the stock is properly marked my first guess would be that it was modified by some past sportsman. May we know the measurements of the stock?

The artillery cleaning rod is also interesting. I have never seen a wooden handle like yours. May we see more detailed photos of the cleaning rod including the business end?

NoLuck · 09-23-2009, 09:18 AM

Sure I can post pics of pretty much every square inch them !
I really have no ideas about the stock or it's history. As far as someone modifying it I can only say that they must have been a damn good carpenter and they must have done it a long time ago ! I can measure it.
Should I continue to post in here or should I post in the newbie area ?

Edward Tinker · 09-23-2009, 09:20 AM

Posting here is fine,

Welcome to the forum.

Ed

NoLuck · 09-23-2009, 10:43 AM

Okay lets see if this works.

NoLuck · 09-23-2009, 10:46 AM

Okay since that worked here's some more of the stock and the cleaning rod as requested

NoLuck · 09-23-2009, 10:54 AM

NoLuck · 09-23-2009, 11:04 AM

George Anderson · 09-23-2009, 12:28 PM

The stock is an original that has had the comb sliced off of it. I don't know about the cleaning rod. It certainly is interesting.

Ron Wood · 09-23-2009, 12:28 PM

Thank you for the additional photos. The shape of the stock looks vaguely familiar, but I can't recall what makes me think so. As I said before, you have some nice stuff. That Erfurt artillery is a dandy!

NoLuck · 09-23-2009, 01:13 PM

Does dandy equate to valuable and rare ??
I've looked at every part and can only find 3 with different numbers (besides the clips). Do they de-value it ? Around about how much do you guys think it's worth. I'm not really thinking of selling but am curious.
Here's pics of the non match parts

NoLuck · 09-23-2009, 01:24 PM

More and more questions !!! I have 2 cases. Which one (if either) is the correct one for this ?

NoLuck · 09-24-2009, 10:27 AM

I was looking around at Simpson Ltd after finding a link to it from here. They have 3 of the same cleaning rods for sale there.

Mauser720 · 09-24-2009, 12:27 PM

No Luck -

I would say this is a valuable rig.

Your "Snail Drum" magazine (proper name Trommel Magazine) is worth about $1,500 to $1,750 all by itself (in my opinion) if it is not a reproduction. Looks like it is a Type II Trommel. Look on the back. It should have a letter "B" on top of a line with a letter "N" under it. And there should be a serial number under the "N" too.

Suggestion: go to www.fgsfirearms.com or www.gunbroker.com (for example) and see what dealers and sellers are getting for this kind of stuff. For example, FGS has a British proofed 1914 Efrurt artillery for sale now, that is listed as 95% finish, and they want $4,250.00 for it. (But you still need to verify what kind of proofs your example has, etc.)

Keep in mind that you need to understand the "retail" and the "wholesale" prices too.

If you mean that you have found 3 parts that don't have matching serial numbers, then yes, that does pull the value down as far as being collectable.

Edward Tinker · 09-24-2009, 01:03 PM

The breechblock being numbered different is a bad thing; and yes devalues it a lot. The rear artillery sight, yes, it does too but not as much.

The cases are generally refered to as artillery holsters, both are "correct", which ever is nicer I would have go with the artillery as the "rig", unless it is numbered to the gun.

Ed

DavidJayUden · 09-24-2009, 02:13 PM

Check for a serial number ont he stock attachment iron too.
DJU

NoLuck · 09-24-2009, 04:46 PM

Isn't that one posted already ? Or is there another number I haven't seen ?
I'm a novice at this and although I've learned a lot in the last few days thanks to you guys , I don't really know exactly where to look. I remember learning to take them apart from my dad when I was a kid. I managed to retain that knowledge. Too bad I can't remember my wife's cell phone number without looking it up !!
The placement of the numbers and stamps for me has been more of take it apart , look at it, and photograph anything I see. I have already found some I've missed when I was looking but saw and happened to catch in the photos I took.

Is it this one that you're referring to ??

09-22-2009, 08:50 PM	#1
NoLuck User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ontario , Canada Posts: 65 Thanks: 8 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Newbie needs help ! Hi there everyone. I just want to say that this is a great forum. So much information to digest ! This is my first post. My dad was into Lugers and Mausers for many many years. He had a few , traded a few, got a few more (you know the drill) on his search for "that" one . He finally ended up with 2 Lugers and 1 Mauser. After he died they went to me. They've been sitting for about 20 years since so I think it's time to figure out what I have. I'm not going to post a whole bunch of pictures and take up space so I have links to them. I took them apart and took pictures of every proofmark and stamp I could find. I figured that if I just asked the experts I would get more info than I'd be able to come up with on my own even if I studied all the posts on here for a long time. I'd appreciate any information and value that you could give me about the stuff. I know this is a Luger forum , but I'll put the link to the Mauser as well. It seems there's quite a bit of crossover between the two anyway and there's probably someone who's on here that knows everything about them too ! Thanks in advance ! Erik http://s57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...k_2006/Erfurt/ http://s57.photobucket.com/albums/g2.../1920%20Luger/ http://s57.photobucket.com/albums/g2.../Snail%20Drum/ http://s57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...k_2006/Mauser/

09-22-2009, 09:10 PM	#2
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Well, your first is an Erfurt Artillery. The chamber date should read 1914. The only year this factory made 23,000 of them. The second appears to be a 1920 DWM, commercial. From your photos both seem to be in excellent condition. Don't know anything about Mausers. Wait til the 'Old Guys' comment. FN Last edited by FNorm; 09-22-2009 at 09:11 PM. Reason: spelling

09-23-2009, 05:56 AM	#4
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,098 Times in 1,676 Posts	Erik, No problem. Welcome aboard. There are a couple of places you could post and this one is as good as any. Some folks can't access photobucket pics, plus they eventually go away. Posting on the forum keeps them active and accessable. You have some nice looking items so your pics will be well appreciated when you post them. I did notice that your artillery stock has an unusual shape. Do you know anything about that? __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-23-2009, 09:20 AM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,912 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,502 Times in 2,077 Posts	Posting here is fine, Welcome to the forum. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-23-2009, 12:28 PM	#13
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,098 Times in 1,676 Posts	Thank you for the additional photos. The shape of the stock looks vaguely familiar, but I can't recall what makes me think so. As I said before, you have some nice stuff. That Erfurt artillery is a dandy! __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-23-2009, 03:21 AM	#3
NoLuck User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ontario , Canada Posts: 65 Thanks: 8 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	After just reading all the stuff I should have read first before posting I realize I have already broken rules ! Sorry about that . I'll resize the pics and upload them tomorrow. Am I posting in the right place ? oops

09-23-2009, 09:06 AM	#5
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,772 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	As Ron pointed out the shape of the stock is interesting. As the stock is properly marked my first guess would be that it was modified by some past sportsman. May we know the measurements of the stock? The artillery cleaning rod is also interesting. I have never seen a wooden handle like yours. May we see more detailed photos of the cleaning rod including the business end?

09-23-2009, 09:18 AM	#6
NoLuck User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ontario , Canada Posts: 65 Thanks: 8 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Sure I can post pics of pretty much every square inch them ! I really have no ideas about the stock or it's history. As far as someone modifying it I can only say that they must have been a damn good carpenter and they must have done it a long time ago ! I can measure it. Should I continue to post in here or should I post in the newbie area ?

09-23-2009, 10:43 AM	#8
NoLuck User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ontario , Canada Posts: 65 Thanks: 8 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Okay lets see if this works.

09-23-2009, 10:46 AM	#9
NoLuck User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ontario , Canada Posts: 65 Thanks: 8 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Okay since that worked here's some more of the stock and the cleaning rod as requested

09-23-2009, 10:54 AM	#10
NoLuck User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ontario , Canada Posts: 65 Thanks: 8 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

09-23-2009, 11:04 AM	#11
NoLuck User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ontario , Canada Posts: 65 Thanks: 8 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

09-23-2009, 01:13 PM	#14
NoLuck User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ontario , Canada Posts: 65 Thanks: 8 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Does dandy equate to valuable and rare ?? I've looked at every part and can only find 3 with different numbers (besides the clips). Do they de-value it ? Around about how much do you guys think it's worth. I'm not really thinking of selling but am curious. Here's pics of the non match parts

09-23-2009, 01:24 PM	#15
NoLuck User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ontario , Canada Posts: 65 Thanks: 8 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	More and more questions !!! I have 2 cases. Which one (if either) is the correct one for this ?

09-24-2009, 10:27 AM	#16
NoLuck User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ontario , Canada Posts: 65 Thanks: 8 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I was looking around at Simpson Ltd after finding a link to it from here. They have 3 of the same cleaning rods for sale there.

09-24-2009, 12:27 PM	#17
Mauser720 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 535 Thanks: 18 Thanked 49 Times in 33 Posts	No Luck - I would say this is a valuable rig. Your "Snail Drum" magazine (proper name Trommel Magazine) is worth about $1,500 to $1,750 all by itself (in my opinion) if it is not a reproduction. Looks like it is a Type II Trommel. Look on the back. It should have a letter "B" on top of a line with a letter "N" under it. And there should be a serial number under the "N" too. Suggestion: go to www.fgsfirearms.com or www.gunbroker.com (for example) and see what dealers and sellers are getting for this kind of stuff. For example, FGS has a British proofed 1914 Efrurt artillery for sale now, that is listed as 95% finish, and they want $4,250.00 for it. (But you still need to verify what kind of proofs your example has, etc.) Keep in mind that you need to understand the "retail" and the "wholesale" prices too. If you mean that you have found 3 parts that don't have matching serial numbers, then yes, that does pull the value down as far as being collectable. __________________ Mauser720 - Ron "Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it."

09-24-2009, 01:03 PM	#18
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,912 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,502 Times in 2,077 Posts	The breechblock being numbered different is a bad thing; and yes devalues it a lot. The rear artillery sight, yes, it does too but not as much. The cases are generally refered to as artillery holsters, both are "correct", which ever is nicer I would have go with the artillery as the "rig", unless it is numbered to the gun. Ed

09-24-2009, 02:13 PM	#19
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Check for a serial number ont he stock attachment iron too. DJU

09-24-2009, 04:46 PM	#20
NoLuck User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ontario , Canada Posts: 65 Thanks: 8 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Isn't that one posted already ? Or is there another number I haven't seen ? I'm a novice at this and although I've learned a lot in the last few days thanks to you guys , I don't really know exactly where to look. I remember learning to take them apart from my dad when I was a kid. I managed to retain that knowledge. Too bad I can't remember my wife's cell phone number without looking it up !! The placement of the numbers and stamps for me has been more of take it apart , look at it, and photograph anything I see. I have already found some I've missed when I was looking but saw and happened to catch in the photos I took. Is it this one that you're referring to ??