LugerForum Discussion Forums my profile | register | faq | search
upload photo | donate | calendar

Go Back   LugerForum Discussion Forums > Luger Discussion Forums > New Collectors Forum

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 12-05-2022, 09:37 PM   #1
AMDO_Mark
User
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Unknown Luger - Seeking knowledge

Greetings,

Thank you for having me. I come as a complete novice to Luger pistols seeking information on a family heirloom that belonged to my late Grandfather, a retired USN AOC type who likely picked subject pistol on one of many deployments.

Not knowing better, the engraved markings (alphanumeric characters spaced by periods) may indicate/identify unit markings... maybe a presentation piece modified pre WWII?

Enough speculation, just wanted to leave some pictures and ask if this pistol has identifying features you folks may be familiar with... thank you in advance!

// Updated 12/8/2022 - additional photos //
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20221203_172311.jpg
Views:	37
Size:	203.0 KB
ID:	86158  

Click image for larger version

Name:	20221203_172319.jpg
Views:	26
Size:	150.9 KB
ID:	86159  

Click image for larger version

Name:	20221208_075649.jpg
Views:	20
Size:	95.0 KB
ID:	86176  

Click image for larger version

Name:	20221208_080421.jpg
Views:	19
Size:	100.9 KB
ID:	86177  

Click image for larger version

Name:	20221208_080033.jpg
Views:	18
Size:	115.0 KB
ID:	86178  

Click image for larger version

Name:	20221208_080019.jpg
Views:	24
Size:	64.6 KB
ID:	86179  

Click image for larger version

Name:	20221208_080000.jpg
Views:	24
Size:	131.6 KB
ID:	86180  

Click image for larger version

Name:	20221208_075850.jpg
Views:	22
Size:	68.8 KB
ID:	86181  

Click image for larger version

Name:	20221208_075832.jpg
Views:	26
Size:	40.2 KB
ID:	86182  

Click image for larger version

Name:	20221208_084514.jpg
Views:	35
Size:	84.3 KB
ID:	86183  


Last edited by AMDO_Mark; 12-08-2022 at 09:56 AM. Reason: Added photos
AMDO_Mark is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to AMDO_Mark for your post:
Unread 12-05-2022, 10:17 PM   #2
HerrKaiser
User
 
HerrKaiser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 757
Thanks: 711
Thanked 730 Times in 352 Posts
Default

That is a unit mark and engraving is not original. It looks like it is a DWM pistol. But more pictures will be needed. See the forum FAQ for some other helpful information. The fact that it is a family heirloom should make it priceless as is for you. Welcome!

Best,
__________________
-QM

Looking for Mauser S/42 toggle train #22
HerrKaiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-05-2022, 11:07 PM   #3
Mac Cat
Lifer
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
Mac Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 543
Thanks: 1,678
Thanked 367 Times in 207 Posts
Default

Welcome to the forum.

Your Luger is interesting.

There isn't enough visible to help you identify it further.
You will need to provide high quality photos of the top, front, both sides at the very least to find out much more.
Mac Cat is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-06-2022, 07:26 AM   #4
AMDO_Mark
User
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

Thank you all for your guidance. I'll grab some additional photos to help with determining. Any areas or internal parts of interest that would help if visible?
AMDO_Mark is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-06-2022, 07:26 AM   #5
kkiley
User
 
kkiley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: maryland
Posts: 30
Thanks: 38
Thanked 17 Times in 11 Posts
Default

Looks like 58th regiment 1st company 27 waffen machine gun company Kevin
kkiley is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-08-2022, 09:47 AM   #6
AMDO_Mark
User
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

Added some additional photos to the original post above, hopefully these are helpful.

In the photos you'll see several numbers marked on the Pistol, curious as to what their significance may be?

- 917 (located topside, just before the barrel)
- 29
- 929

Additionally, there are what appears to be maybe a few other very small characters/markings?

Also, nothing that really looks like an Import Marking...
AMDO_Mark is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-08-2022, 09:58 AM   #7
AMDO_Mark
User
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

Added a few extra showing what looks like some kind of character stamped on the trigger housing maybe?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20221208_084422.jpg
Views:	20
Size:	56.5 KB
ID:	86184  

Click image for larger version

Name:	20221208_084325.jpg
Views:	18
Size:	91.5 KB
ID:	86185  

AMDO_Mark is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-08-2022, 10:51 AM   #8
AMDO_Mark
User
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

Can't believe I missed this, but in the photo of the top of the Pistol, if you look at the center portion just forward of the rear-sight, I think you can see Initials Engraved "DWM" in cursive script.
AMDO_Mark is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-08-2022, 04:26 PM   #9
mrerick
Super Moderator - Patron
LugerForum
Life Patron
 
mrerick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA
Posts: 3,850
Thanks: 1,342
Thanked 2,987 Times in 1,464 Posts
Default

Your Luger started out a 1917 military contract Luger manufactured by DWM in Berlin.

Take a look at our FAQ PDF document for reference information.

It is unit marked, as mentioned already. It's been refinished and heavily engraved. The oak leave pattern is often something seen with European engravers, but I am not experienced at recognizing specific engraver work.

Military contract pistols would have never left the factory this way, and this work including the replacement grips were all done well after it was manufactured. Some GIs hired skilled people to do this work after the war in Europe or after they returned to the USA.

These modifications generally eliminate most of the collector interest or value in a Luger since collectors most highly value an unmodified Luger as close as possible to the state it left the factory. That said, it's a priceless personal heirloom to you and your family.

I really can't read markings on the photos you've posted. Take pictures with a camera that can focus sharply and take them in natural shaded light without flash so that the finish is flatly illuminated. The serial number generally has a suffix letter visible under the numeric digits on the front of the frame above the trigger guard.
__________________
Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum -
- Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.
mrerick is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 3 members says Thank You to mrerick for your post:
Unread 12-08-2022, 05:17 PM   #10
AMDO_Mark
User
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

I guess the question is, if members of the AEF brought this Pistol home and chose to have it engraved, why why why on earth would they have chosen to have "big ole" specific German unit markings engraved on the Pistol Grip?


Was it common for engravers to preserve the unit markings or did they "work over" these typically?
AMDO_Mark is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-08-2022, 08:09 PM   #11
Ron Wood
Moderator
2010 LugerForum
Patron
 
Ron Wood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso
Posts: 6,914
Thanks: 957
Thanked 4,768 Times in 1,610 Posts
Default

Probably left the unit mark on for the same reason they didn't engrave over the date or the DWM...it was a mark already on the gun so they left it.
__________________
If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction
Ron Wood is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to Ron Wood for your post:
Unread 12-09-2022, 02:23 PM   #12
AMDO_Mark
User
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

Thank you all for the information, much appreciated!
AMDO_Mark is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-09-2022, 03:36 PM   #13
Mac Cat
Lifer
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
Mac Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 543
Thanks: 1,678
Thanked 367 Times in 207 Posts
Default

I don't know anything at all about engraved guns, but I would think the artist must have signed it somewhere. That might be interesting to pursue. It's fascinating art.
Mac Cat is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-13-2022, 10:42 PM   #14
AMDO_Mark
User
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

On this image, does this resemble a crown or some kind of character that you folks are familiar with? Was wondering if this was something done separate from the engraving, or if it was likely a coincidence and just part of it. Looking on the right side of the frame...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20221208_084306.jpg
Views:	10
Size:	105.3 KB
ID:	86216  

AMDO_Mark is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-14-2022, 12:58 AM   #15
wlyon
Lifer 2X
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
wlyon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Somewhere in Montana
Posts: 2,570
Thanks: 3,010
Thanked 2,411 Times in 904 Posts
Default

Those are the original German proof marks. They were there when the original luger left the factory
__________________
Bill Lyon
wlyon is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 5 members says Thank You to wlyon for your post:
Unread 01-14-2023, 11:54 PM   #16
Eugen
User
 
Eugen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Newburgh,IN
Posts: 729
Thanks: 320
Thanked 540 Times in 290 Posts
Default

Fascinating family heirloom. I rarely see an engraved Luger.
__________________
“God created war so that Americans would learn geography.”
― Mark Twain
Eugen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1998 - 2023, Lugerforum.com