Craaaazy Idea for Ted aka Thor

Doug G. · 06-30-2002, 11:23 PM

Ok, without making fun of me has it ever crossed your mind to see what a P.08 would look like if you strawed the whole gun? It might just look pretty good? <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" /> <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

Frank · 06-30-2002, 11:36 PM

OK Doug. You must want to be "The Man with the GOLDEN GUN" [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Herb · 06-30-2002, 11:57 PM

[img]cool.gif[/img] Doug, don't feel alone, I have wondered that also, getting the time/temperature just right on the different thickness of the parts would really be time consuming and very difficult, but I'll bet it would look really neat. Might be a good project for someone with a really badly finished mismatched shooter.

Thor · 07-01-2002, 12:04 AM

Without sounding brazen, it would be a piece of cake for me to accomplish! This has been asked before, Jesse Burke of the old forum asked this question 3 years ago, lol! The strawing is an oxide that is VERY subject to degradation by handling, holstering, bright lights etc. This is exactly the reason that you see many Imperial Lugers that are 90% bluing and 20% strawing. If I was going to do something on this order, I would prefer seeing it gold plated, but that brings into problems with added thickness to fitted parts. Once you see a brand new rust blued Luger, you realize it is so pretty and so resilient and provides a beautiful contrast to the fire blue and strawed parts you really come to appreciate, at least I do, the combination of these fantastic colors. A strawed Luger would be much too much for my palate! The gold plated engraved Luger on Tales of the Gun video really set me off! I loved it! Next thing someone will come up with is to Straw the main parts, fire blue the small parts and rust blue the screws and springs! lol hahahah ak ak.... ak ak ak Thor <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />

Edward Tinker · 07-01-2002, 12:09 AM

Ted, wouldn't that be like what some of the Colt Single Actions are, case hardening, or is that totally different?

Ed

Thor · 07-01-2002, 12:17 AM

different for sure. Case hardening places gun parts in charcoal or bone and the parts are in a carbon rich environment. I have a high temp ovens to do this (goes all the way up to 2000 degrees F) but not the expertise......yet.

Johnny Peppers · 07-01-2002, 12:36 AM

There is a world of difference in the appearance of case hardened parts and color-case hardened parts. Case hardening is used to give a part an extremely hard finish, while color-casehardening is done mostly for the beauty and unique colored patterns left on the steel. The colors in color-case hardening will vary by the types and ratio of organic charcoal used in the process, as well as the composition of the steel being color-casehardened. The quenching method will also vary the colors and patterns of the process. Most manufacturers gave their color-casehardened parts a lacquer coating to intensity the colors. While not a particularily durable finish, the color-casehardening is hard to match for beauty.

Edward Tinker · 07-01-2002, 01:08 AM

Thanks guys, didn't know that info! [img]cool.gif[/img]

Doubs · 07-01-2002, 11:54 AM

I once read an article in an English gun magazine about case hardening. A gun maker was asked to apply case hardening to an action and his reply was the question "Do you want it pretty or do you want it durable?" The deeper the case hardening, the duller the colors and the greater the wear properties.

It's my understanding that on their Vicaro revolver frames, Ruger uses a process to apply colors that simulate color case hardening but it isn't. Bone charcoal isn't used in the process at all.

Ron Wood · 07-01-2002, 01:01 PM

Doubs, You are correct. Most of the replica Colts and perhaps the Vaquero use a cyanide process to case harden the frame. It tends to be a bit more gray and duller than the coloful bone case hardening. As Thor pointed out, both process use laquer to seal the finish and enhance the colors.

unspellable · 07-01-2002, 01:58 PM

As far as plating goes, the extra thickness doesn't seem to bother the nickle plated abomination. If anything the action seems a little slicker as I think a nickle to nickle mating surface has a lower coefficient of friction than a steel to steel one. Gold plating would probably not be much more more durable than strawing. I have a revolver with some gold plating on it and it doesn't impress me for wear resistance.

This is the first I've heard that light is hard on a straw finish although I've heard it said of case coloring. I'm a bit baffled as to why, I'd think an oxide coating would be fairly stable and not affected by light.

unspellable

wterrell · 07-01-2002, 07:07 PM

It is my understanding that strawing (oxidizing) the gun completely would result in different shades of the strawing, dependent upon the content of the base metal, of each component part. The pistol was not created entirely of the same base material. The requirements of each piece determined its composition.

Thor · 07-01-2002, 07:17 PM

Well, I guess since I have never done one, I won,t be able to verify your claim. Maybe someday.....

lugerholsterrepair · 07-01-2002, 11:04 PM

As far as duribility of gold goes it makes a big difference if it is plated with 22 or 24 K or say 14 K or 18 K or the best for durability would be 10 K. 10 K is much harder because of the metal alloys added to it. 24 K gold is similar to lead. Very bendable and soft. Lots of plating concernes plate in 22K and it is say , a car part or some such that is simply decorative without much wear involved. Pays to know what to ask for. Jerry Burney

Herb · 07-01-2002, 11:16 PM

If you just plan on just showing it off and not touching it very much, try gold leaf, it's available in any good ceramics or crafting shops such as Michaels. You can do the whole thing for about $30.00, it is NOT durable, but it is purdy. If you want to try it you should get a reference on how to apply the leaf, it is somewhat of an art to get it right and it is REAL gold! When you finish it, post a pic for us.

06-30-2002, 11:23 PM	#1
Doug G. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 713 Thanks: 1 Thanked 53 Times in 17 Posts	Craaaazy Idea for Ted aka Thor Ok, without making fun of me has it ever crossed your mind to see what a P.08 would look like if you strawed the whole gun? It might just look pretty good? <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" /> <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" /> __________________ Suppose you were an idiot.....and suppose you were a member of Congress.....But I repeat myself" ~~ Mark Twain

06-30-2002, 11:57 PM	#3
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	[img]cool.gif[/img] Doug, don't feel alone, I have wondered that also, getting the time/temperature just right on the different thickness of the parts would really be time consuming and very difficult, but I'll bet it would look really neat. Might be a good project for someone with a really badly finished mismatched shooter. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

07-01-2002, 12:04 AM	#4
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Without sounding brazen, it would be a piece of cake for me to accomplish! This has been asked before, Jesse Burke of the old forum asked this question 3 years ago, lol! The strawing is an oxide that is VERY subject to degradation by handling, holstering, bright lights etc. This is exactly the reason that you see many Imperial Lugers that are 90% bluing and 20% strawing. If I was going to do something on this order, I would prefer seeing it gold plated, but that brings into problems with added thickness to fitted parts. Once you see a brand new rust blued Luger, you realize it is so pretty and so resilient and provides a beautiful contrast to the fire blue and strawed parts you really come to appreciate, at least I do, the combination of these fantastic colors. A strawed Luger would be much too much for my palate! The gold plated engraved Luger on Tales of the Gun video really set me off! I loved it! Next thing someone will come up with is to Straw the main parts, fire blue the small parts and rust blue the screws and springs! lol hahahah ak ak.... ak ak ak Thor <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" /> __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

07-01-2002, 12:09 AM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Ted, wouldn't that be like what some of the Colt Single Actions are, case hardening, or is that totally different? Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-01-2002, 12:17 AM	#6
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	different for sure. Case hardening places gun parts in charcoal or bone and the parts are in a carbon rich environment. I have a high temp ovens to do this (goes all the way up to 2000 degrees F) but not the expertise......yet. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

06-30-2002, 11:36 PM	#2
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	OK Doug. You must want to be "The Man with the GOLDEN GUN" [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

07-01-2002, 12:36 AM	#7
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	There is a world of difference in the appearance of case hardened parts and color-case hardened parts. Case hardening is used to give a part an extremely hard finish, while color-casehardening is done mostly for the beauty and unique colored patterns left on the steel. The colors in color-case hardening will vary by the types and ratio of organic charcoal used in the process, as well as the composition of the steel being color-casehardened. The quenching method will also vary the colors and patterns of the process. Most manufacturers gave their color-casehardened parts a lacquer coating to intensity the colors. While not a particularily durable finish, the color-casehardening is hard to match for beauty.

07-01-2002, 01:08 AM	#8
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Thanks guys, didn't know that info! [img]cool.gif[/img] __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-01-2002, 11:54 AM	#9
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	I once read an article in an English gun magazine about case hardening. A gun maker was asked to apply case hardening to an action and his reply was the question "Do you want it pretty or do you want it durable?" The deeper the case hardening, the duller the colors and the greater the wear properties. It's my understanding that on their Vicaro revolver frames, Ruger uses a process to apply colors that simulate color case hardening but it isn't. Bone charcoal isn't used in the process at all.

07-01-2002, 01:01 PM	#10
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	Doubs, You are correct. Most of the replica Colts and perhaps the Vaquero use a cyanide process to case harden the frame. It tends to be a bit more gray and duller than the coloful bone case hardening. As Thor pointed out, both process use laquer to seal the finish and enhance the colors. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-01-2002, 01:58 PM	#11
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 10 Posts	As far as plating goes, the extra thickness doesn't seem to bother the nickle plated abomination. If anything the action seems a little slicker as I think a nickle to nickle mating surface has a lower coefficient of friction than a steel to steel one. Gold plating would probably not be much more more durable than strawing. I have a revolver with some gold plating on it and it doesn't impress me for wear resistance. This is the first I've heard that light is hard on a straw finish although I've heard it said of case coloring. I'm a bit baffled as to why, I'd think an oxide coating would be fairly stable and not affected by light. unspellable

07-01-2002, 07:07 PM	#12
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	It is my understanding that strawing (oxidizing) the gun completely would result in different shades of the strawing, dependent upon the content of the base metal, of each component part. The pistol was not created entirely of the same base material. The requirements of each piece determined its composition. __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

07-01-2002, 07:17 PM	#13
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Well, I guess since I have never done one, I won,t be able to verify your claim. Maybe someday..... __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

07-01-2002, 11:04 PM	#14
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	As far as duribility of gold goes it makes a big difference if it is plated with 22 or 24 K or say 14 K or 18 K or the best for durability would be 10 K. 10 K is much harder because of the metal alloys added to it. 24 K gold is similar to lead. Very bendable and soft. Lots of plating concernes plate in 22K and it is say , a car part or some such that is simply decorative without much wear involved. Pays to know what to ask for. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-01-2002, 11:16 PM	#15
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	If you just plan on just showing it off and not touching it very much, try gold leaf, it's available in any good ceramics or crafting shops such as Michaels. You can do the whole thing for about $30.00, it is NOT durable, but it is purdy. If you want to try it you should get a reference on how to apply the leaf, it is somewhat of an art to get it right and it is REAL gold! When you finish it, post a pic for us. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull