Shooting a Collector Grade Luger

[Bob in OH]

Greetings-

I do know the difference between a Shooter (SC) and a collectable luger (CL).

My small brain tells me that breaking a matching part on a CL now renders it a SL... I also have heard the arguement about wear and tear on shooting matching P.38s, K98s, and P.08s.

Yet, the question remains: Is the Luger, which is a finely crafted machine and built to be shot, fragile enough that it may suffer a mechanical failure if occassionally shot today?? Second, where is failure most likely to occur??

In science, we normally use > 5% as a rejection level. I guess if I knew such a failure is likely at >5% I would not consider shooting a CL!!

Thanks for your opinion in advance...Bob

[trigger643]

I no longer own a gun I won't shoot. I just sold my last unshootable gun, a NIB MkIV Series 70 with SM Ser# prefix (less than 3000 assembled with left over frames).

That doesn't mean I shoot my collectors all the time. It also doesn't mean that I shoot them without the occasional guilt or the homer simpson "DOOOPH" when I notice a new nick or scratch. I have an S/42 1938 with 2 matching mags that I felt very guilty about shooting until a recent thread elsewhere upon this board brought me to the realization it had been rebarreled by the Germans prior to it's capture. Still collectible, but downgraded from "original" to "correct". I shot it yesterday. Put 30 rounds through it. As guns go, it's not perfect, but it is still sweet. It wasn't the only gun I brought to the range. I shoot the hell out of my 1968 vintage 1911 Govt Clark Custom and my Hammerli Olympic. The vintage S&W41 which competed, with documentation, in the Olympics in the 1950's, also got shot.

These are my toys. When I die let the future generation should wonder what the hell I was thinking, just as I wonder what the previous owner was thinking about when he swapped the stock on my otherwise perfect 1923 Springfield NM 03 or my as new k98 Turret mount byf42 with the G.I.'s name, rank and home address carved in the stock...

I'm not leaving a legacy. I'm enjoying my time and my things.

[Stu]

I tend to agree that it's nice to be able to shoot what you own. Having said that, there are some guns that have historical value that would be degraded by breakage and 'lost' as a result. There are plenty of similar, but less significant, weapons out there to shoot.

I believe the Luger to be a well made and strong weapon. The point to remember is that these guns range from nearly 50 to over 90 years old. Metal can degrade with age and who knows what abuse has been inflicted in the past ?

There was a post on this board recently that surveyed the most common breakages when shooting Lugers, you might want to try a search and read that.

Other than that, it's up to you to judge if you want to turn, say a $1000 investment, into $700

[wterrell]

Hopefully, barring attrition, your collector pistol will still be around 1000 years from now. (this is not an exaggeration) How many owners over that period of time will go out to the range and occasionally fire off a few rounds?
I'll tell you right now that the pistol will be shot out, dinged-up, scratched, 45% finish, with chipped grips within 90 years by occasional plinking. It will be a pile of junk. Have we no consideration for future generations of Luger collectors? Have we no respect for a collectible Luger? Do we really need to hear BANG! from a particular pistol?
Be honest now, the argument for shooting a collectible Luger is to fulfill some dark, uncontrollable, self-centric urges that you do not understand.

[Dwight Gruber]

Bob,

There was a survey done recently on parts which break in use. Try this link:

broken parts survey

Lugers are a "finely crafted machine...built to be shot." They are not "fragile" in the ordinary sense. Remember, though, that they are 60-100 years old, and that many of them have had hard use--and you are shooting closer to the end of the use cycle, not the beginning.

It is a Luger's value which is the fragile thing here.

--Dwight

[lugerholsterrepair]

Bob, Shooting a collectable is likely to damage the grips if nothing else. I was shooting a shooter at the range the other day, it had (past tense) a great pair of grips untill the sliver from the safety area broke off and landed on the web of my hand. Like Wes says, shooting these things wears them out. I love to shoot but some of the pistols I pick up are an investment only and I save those and shoot one's just like them that are shooters. There is a difference.Same goes for holsters. I would never take an investment grade collector holster out to the range. I have many others that will serve for that duty. Why ruin a good one? Jerry Burney

[trigger643]

It's hard for me to judge a price when shooting my Lugers. I think the hold and point-ability is wonderful, and like all serious, or semi-serious shooters, I think the sights suck.

What is a 1916 Erfurt Artillery with 1 matching mag and complete matching rig worth? $2,000? $3,000? Or a 1938 S/42 P.08 with 2 matching mags worth? $2,000? How do I equate this against my Bereta 682 super sporting clay gold? or my M1A NM?

Every time we handle these weapons, let alone shoot them... we degrade their "value". But isn't the value based upon our ability to own, shoot and appreciate their historical importance and evaluate their ability?

They survived the generations, they will survive my generation?

[wterrell]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva"> But isn't the value based upon our ability to own, shoot and appreciate their historical importance and evaluate their ability?
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The answer is 'no'.

[Stu]

Anything is worth the price which the seller will accept and the buyer pay, (and not just in terms of $'s).

I do believe that the measure of value for a modern gun in current production is different to one that now has an exact and finite supply. Break your Beretta, Browning, M16 or M1A and you can go out and buy another tomorrow; not so with a Luger.

I believe that there are a few guns that have a place in history and should be preserved as such. Other should be enjoyed as the owner sees fit.

One thing to consider is that all machines wear out with use; as people shoot their Lugers parts will break and the supply of original replacements will dwindle. In that regard the number of original, shootable, Lugers will inexorably reduce.

From a personal perspective I admire, and speculate about the history, of my shooter grade, but matching, Lugers. I occasionaly shoot my older mismatched guns and regularly shoot my modern Aimco version which, if blindfolded, I'd be hard pushed to distinguish from the older guns.

Each to their own with their own property, but once broken these guns can never be replaced or returned to their previous condition.

[Jimbo]

The number of collector Lugers is finite and ever-dwindling as specimens are shot out, broken, worn and destroyed. Yes, destroyed.

You do what you want. It certainly isn't a moral decision whether to use a legally owned inanimate object in the manner for which it was designed.

But I couldn't. I worked too hard trying to find these nice collector's items and passed on too many that were already damaged, worn or abused by someone else.

But you do what you want.

[Navy]

Gents et al,

Leave us not be characteristically pig-headed.
If you want to shoot a Luger, there are many, many available which have zero colector interest available for your shooting pleasure.

If you have a collector grade Luger and feel compelled to shoot lugers, pls make your gun available on the forum BEFORE you take it to the range. My suspicion is that someone on the forum will offer you sufficient cash such that you can have your shooter and have a lot left over for ammo...and probably dinner afterwards for you and your sweetie.

Following this approach, there is no decline in the availability of high-grade collector Lugers for those of us who seek them.

My zwei peffigs,
Tom A.

[kidvett]

Hello,

Some of my pistols are SHOOTERS some others are COLLECTORS....Parts breakage is a scary thing to me....also transforming a Collector grade pistol into a shooter...or until the hunt for that broken part is over and a forced match is done....But still it's not the same as a Genuine ALL matching parts Collector pistol...

A nice one I used to have...couldnt imagine myself shooting it...resisted temtation to do so....and traded it to a fellow Collector that enjoys it for it's historical value...

kidvett <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

[Silvereagle29]

Yes my friends, here sits Bob White with tears running down his cheeks as he stares at this mint Police Luger he holds in his hand. Five minutes ago it was a matched 99% rig with two matching magazines, holster and tool numbered to the gun. Now there is only a hole where the extractor once set, with no extractor in sight. Famous last words, I only wanted to shoot it a couple times. Soooo??? When does a Luger break? If, it's a mint rig like the so called Mr Whites' once was, it will probably break after a couple of rounds. If, the pistol is a doggy WW-1 rework with mis-matched numbers you can probably shoot it everyday for the next ten years and couldn't break it if one wanted to. The moral being, if it's not broke, don't break it. Message from the Phantom collector of two matching mag Lugers.

[Roadkill]

You can never change a shooter into a collector. You can change a collector into a shooter in an instant.

rk

[John Sabato]

Silvereagle29,

I certainly hope that the Bob White you spoke of invested in a metal detector (about $100 at walmart) and spent a goodly amount of time looking for that extractor while he contemplated his actions...

Did the retaining pin shear? or did the extractor break off and leave the pin?

[Bob Egan]

I only have three Lugers, G date, 1920, 1938 DWM, and I shoot them all. The G date is all original but has seen much service, lots of wear, Russian Front? The 1938 is 90% all matching, with a mint holster, the commercial pitted in places, some serious.When I hear these guns fire, I hear history speaking, as with the 1863 Spfld, "03, M1, and two m1911's. The only gun I dont fire is a brand new 1911 which appears to be unfired, with it's original holster, two clips with 1918 ammo in them. I am a bit turned off by all the talk of "value" as if these pieces are merely stocks and bonds.Hell, as a kid we played "guns" with real ones brought back from both world wars, real uniforms too, and now all this former "junk" is apparently priceless. Just found out that a Civil War holster and gun belt I have had since a kid is worth about $800 bucks! Got if for a buck! Have to sell it now I guess.

[Edward Tinker]

Nahhhh, I don't think so Bob, if you sell it, you can't tell your drinking buddies, "And this piece of $%#@%^ was bought for a buck and now is worth $800 dollars!"

Priceless to say that,

[Stu]

Bob, I have to ask, why not shoot the 1911 ? Any aspect of 'value' in that decision ?

[Torquemada055]

I have to say that as a shooter and a newbie here, that the only Luger I have ever wanted was for the pure joy of shooting it.
I can collect lot's of stuff, but it will never fill me with the joy of using the gun of my dreams.
So, what's the use of having the most toy's when 2 second's after your heart stops it belongs to someone else ?