1920 Commercial Luger - needs confirmation

[rjf]

I recently inherited this Luger when my dad passed away. The family history is that my Italian father was a 16-7-year old partisan fighting in NE Italy. He "liberated" this pistol and hid it in a barn. In 1947, he immigrated to the US to make a new life. In the early 1960's, on one of his returns to Italy he brought it back in his luggage. It has been in a sock drawer since.

I am interested in finding out more about it, validate what I have discovered, it's market value and if the family history is plausible.

Here is what I know so far from on-line research and e-mail correspondence with some military collectors I know:

1920-22 Commercial P-08 Luger (possible)

Specifications:
• Manufacturer: DWM
• Vintage: 1920-1922 with early SN #2858
• Type: Autoloading service pistol
• Operation: Recoil operated (toggle action), striker fired
• Action: Single action
• Caliber: 7.65mm
• Magazine capacity: 7
• Barrel length: 4"
• Trigger pull: 2-1/4 lbs.
• Sights: Fixed; V-notch rear, dovetail mounted bead front
• Sight radius: 8-11/16" (22.2cm)
• Finish: blued steel
• Grips: 2-piece, Walnut, Checkered, Without a Border or Insignia
• Overall length: 8 1/4" (21cm)
• Height: 5-1/2" (13cm)
• Width: 1-1/2" (3.7cm)
• Weight: approx. 2 lbs. with empty magazine
• Country of origin: Germany

Additional Details and Markings:
• Toggle Inscription: DWM (Manufacturer prior 1933)
• Chamber Inscription: Crown N
• Toggle Knob Type: Round and checkered
• Grip Safety: Not present
• Stock Lug: Not Present
• Thumb Safety: "Gesichert" in forward position.
• "Geladen" on chamber indicator exposed when round chambered.
• Magazine Bottom Plug: dark brown walnut. no markings.
• No manufacture year stamp (Commercial)
• Barrel proof: crown N, #2858, cursive letter either s, r or v.
• Front piece: #2858, GERMANY, cursive letter possibly "o".
• Crown "N" located on receiver, barrel, chamber,
• # 58 located on all major parts

Condition: Good, but used condition. minor pitting and some surface rust. majority (60-75%) of bluing intact. Some barrel wear. Functional.

Contact Rich Filippi 850.832.7863. ramsgate01@gmail.com

[Edward Tinker]

Welcome to the forum, this is what I see.

You have a commercial model made in the late 1920's for the US market (German stamped was an exporter marking for the USA market), the letter on the front of the frame is part of the serial number.

In our book, we have 2858 but the suffix is 'u' (totally diff gun I know), but just funny to see)

The suffix looks like a 'O' to me - so it would be made around 1926-1927 in my opinion.

All the 'hidden' numbers should match the last two of the serial number, sideplate, takedown, several other parts...

Ed

[lugerholsterrepair]

With the GERMANY Marking it indicates this pistol was imported into an English speaking country..the USA in the mid 20's. Anything can and does happen but it could cast some doubt on Pop's story. A pistol such as this would be an unlikely pistol to be "liberated" in Italy.

[mrerick]

Hi, and welcome go the forum.

It's difficult to be sure, but from the pictures it looks like this Luger may have been refinished. This is indicated by the lack of "halos" around the barrel stamped serial number, the dark blued pin that holds the toggle axle in and the general surface appearance. It's hard to judge finish, especially in flash photographs.

Your gun's full serial number is "2858o" including the suffix letter.

This variation is called a "DWM Alphabet Commercial" and was not used in military service. It was an export gun made in the mid 1920's (as indicated above) and was helping earn the Lowe group conglomerate some much needed foreign funds during a very difficult period of post WW-I inflation.

Today, these are not valued as highly as military Lugers. If in very high % original finish, they are worth about $900-$1,000. If refinished, perhaps $600.

Marc

[DavidJayUden]

I personally wouldn't be quite so hard on it regarding a possible refinish. IF it was, it was done a LONG time ago, and done right, not all buffed up and salt blued.
To me it looks like a nice old gun with a great story to tell. But then I'm a sucker for a touch of patina.
I'd say $800-$1000 range. But priceless to your family, regardless.
dju

[rjf]

Thanks for the outpouring of helpful information.

- I was directed to 1920-22 Commercial because of the low 4-digit SN. It sounds like the consensus is mid-late 1920's.
- the cursive letter was hard to decipher until I joined the forum. I thought it looked like a v, r or s. I matched it with other "o" from your data base.
- the family story is intriguing. Dad was a 16-17 year old partisan in NE Italy and received a life pension from the Italian government for that service. Maybe he hid a Luger away and years later went back to retrieve it, but it wasn't there so bought a "replacement" in the US to complete the story - or brought it back, sold his war trophy, regretted it and later replaced it with a US export or there maybe another Luger my mom has not discovered at home. He passed away, but it is worth further examination.
- I had a local gunsmith do a light cleaning and oiling and I am storing it in a Sackup pistol sleeve. He confirmed that it is in good working order. What else should I do?
- at some point I may decide not to keep it. No one in the family cares about it and when I pass away it will be "garage sale" with everything else by my daughter(It is what it is). How would you recommend I sell it when the time comes?

Thanks again for the warm reception - Rich

[DavidJayUden]

Presuming that the time is a long ways away, you have plenty of options. Maybe consign it at a local gun shop? There is always gunbroker. etc, on line, and there is here.
How about taking it to a shooting range and having fun with it? Hopefully a family member will show some interest.
dju

[Edward Tinker]

Germany marked guns were FOR the USA market, does not mean they didn't get sold to Mexico or Canada, but it was a USA requirement (1883? Dwight knows)


ed

[Dick Herman]

I have a Colt model 1903 made in 1908. The pistol was carried by an US Army Colonel from Illinois during WW2. The gun had been his grandfathers. The grandfather was from the same town in Illinois.

The Colt Historical Reference letter I received states that the pistol was shipped to Hamburg Germany in 1908.

The point is, the applied marks on our toys only provide information regarding their leaving the factory at best.

Too bad our toys cannot give us their stories.

[Dwight Gruber]

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...ht=export+mark

--Dwight

[alanint]

An overlooked item in the owner's detailed description is of importance:
NO stock lug.
If this was ground off, it lends credence to the pistol being refinished and would materially affect the value.

[Sergio Natali]

Maybe it's my feeling but recently several people asked for info about commercial Lugers...


Sergio

[rjf]

Thank you all for your generous information - I will pursue all suggested avenues.
- rich

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by rjf

Thank you all for your generous information - I will pursue all suggested avenues.
- rich

Welcome Rich,

We like to see FS posted here, giving us a shot at it first (no pun intended). The asking price you establish is totally up to you.

[saxman]

Originally Posted by luger.parabellum

Maybe it's my feeling but recently several people asked for info about commercial Lugers...


Sergio

Maybe so. I'm one of them. Typically, these things run in cycles. Over on the 1911 forum, for a while there 1943 Colts were being posted every week. That died down and then it was late 1918 M1911s. Probably the same over here. I think it's simply somebody looking to find out about their pistol stumbles on a certain forum on which somebody else has posted with a similar gun recently. The guy says 'Hey, that's like mine' and we're off to the races. Kind of a self-perpetrating coincidence.

[tommyjoe]

Not to say it wasnt imported to the US in the 20's. It could have traveled to Italy before the war started. If it was imported doesnt mean it had to stay here. Remember all the privately owned weapons sent to England during the war. Give the poster a break.
Tom

[lugerholsterrepair]

Tom, Give the poster a break? No one is "breaking bad" on Rich! The pistol tell's it's own story and that's a legitimate avenue of discussion. Rich is asking for any and all information and we give it freely. Admittedly his Family story is somewhat secondhand according to Rich. It seems a very circular route to me..somewhat far fetched but like everyone agrees..anything is possible..just not probable.