What to do?

[no4mk1t]

So I have the opportunity to buy this Luger from a co-worker.

From what I've read, it appears to be a 30 cal. commercial circa 1926.
All the parts that have numbers match, except the magazine. It has a black plastic base and is marked Erma. (I'm guessing the mag dates from the 60'-70's?)
The barrel is badly pitted.
There is just a hint of straw on those parts.
The grips are intact with some wear down by the screw.
There is some rust under the grips and in the mag well.
I have not fired it, but it seems to be in decent shape except for one thing. If you cycle the pistol and place the safety on "safe" and press the trigger, then move the safety to "fire", the striker will fall without touching the trigger.

So my questions are:

I figure this to be a shooter being its condition kinda kills any collector value.

What is it worth?

Rebarrel to 9mm?
I load for this caliber, so this seems to make the most sense from a ammo availability standpoint.

What needs to be done to fix the safety issue?

I was thinking of a good cleaning in the ultra sonic followed by an electrolysis rust removal bath.

I have done rust bluing and nitre bluing for a Krag project, so refinishing is possible for personal gratification if nothing else. Getting the straw color just right would be a neat challenge.

Give the grips a good cleaning.

Here's a few pics.

[Edward Tinker]

Welcome to the forum.

I would say since its 30 luger (7.65mm) that is in this condition, that maybe $500-$600?

More and you'll be stretching it if you decide to sell. But depends on how bad you want it, the rougher barrel will turn off a lot of folks, on the other hand you can always have the barrel changed to 9mm

[mrerick]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

With the issues, consider this.

By the time you acquire it and then pay to have it re-barreled and the safety / sear / trigger plate / trigger lever / trigger issue fixed, you could have bought a 9mm shooter in good condition.

Marc

[no4mk1t]

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

Welcome to the forum.

I would say since its 30 luger (7.65mm) that is in this condition, that maybe $500-$600?

More and you'll be stretching it if you decide to sell. But depends on how bad you want it, the rougher barrel will turn off a lot of folks, on the other hand you can always have the barrel changed to 9mm

Originally Posted by mrerick

Hello and welcome to the forum.

With the issues, consider this.

By the time you acquire it and then pay to have it re-barreled and the safety / sear / trigger plate / trigger lever / trigger issue fixed, you could have bought a 9mm shooter in good condition.

Marc

I can get it for $200. I was thinking this might make it worthwhile.

[RichSr]

Your thinking is sound. Jump on it for that price.

[no4mk1t]

Can the safety issue be diagnosed with good macro pics of the sear bar, striker, or other parts?

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by no4mk1t

Can the safety issue be diagnosed with good macro pics of the sear bar, striker, or other parts?

Maybe--let's see some. Otherwise, a strange problem. The safety bar blocks the outward motion of the sear bar on that end. It's a little weird how this is malfunctioning, in that disengaging the safety shouldn't ordinarily move the bar. The system is, I think, harboring some sort of tension when the safety is on and created when the trigger is then pulled. I'd check the angles and conditions of the corners that interface between the sear and striker, in addition to the sear spring, and range and smoothness of all parts' motions during the process. Did you remove the sear bar during the cleaning?

[TheRomanhistorian]

I'd buy it at that price regardless of problems as it could be a nice wall piece if it really was unsound but it sounds like there's a good chance of fixing its woes.

[K.Wilhelm]

This is just me, but I wouldn't put the old and delicate parts of a Luger through ultrasonic cleaning. Bill

[sheepherder]

For $200 you could part it out and double or possibly triple your investment and then buy a decent [mismatched, VoPo/RC, worn] shooter in 9mm.

There are always members looking for parts and even the frame is sale-able.

[no4mk1t]

Here's a pic of the pistol c0cked, with the safety bar partially raised to show the gap between it and the sear bar. This is the first time I've been inside a Luger, so please point out what is as it should be and what is not.
I estimate the gap to be about .020.


In this pic, all I've done is press the trigger. The sear bar moves out into contact with the safety bar. It does not retract when the trigger is released, but it can be pressed back to its former position with finger pressure. At this point, if the safety is moved to the fire position, the striker falls.


Here's the striker. It is a pain to get an auto focus camera to focus on something like this. I do not see anything abnormal with the striker/sear bar contact surface.


The striker contact surface on the sear bar looks like it is rounded off a bit.


Here's some more pics of the sear bar. Maybe between the lot, an idea of the condition of the surface can be determined.
My gun tinkering experience says the sear bar contact surface is worn and is the culprit. But I've never tinkered with a Luger before, and that's why I'm here to get a group of knowledgeable folks to weigh in.

[no4mk1t]

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

Maybe--let's see some. Otherwise, a strange problem. The safety bar blocks the outward motion of the sear bar on that end. It's a little weird how this is malfunctioning, in that disengaging the safety shouldn't ordinarily move the bar. The system is, I think, harboring some sort of tension when the safety is on and created when the trigger is then pulled. I'd check the angles and conditions of the corners that interface between the sear and striker, in addition to the sear spring, and range and smoothness of all parts' motions during the process. Did you remove the sear bar during the cleaning?

It is my uneducated guess that the sear bar surface being rounded off a bit is allowing the striker to be held on the rounded portion when the sear bar comes into contact with the safety bar. There is not enough clearance for it to release as it is wedged up against the safety bar. As soon as the safety is disengaged, the striker slips off the rounded area. I would assume this area should be squared off and sharp shouldered just like any other striker/sear engagement surface.

[rhuff]

Seeing the sear bar, and reading what is happening, I am wondering if "bubba" did some trigger work that turned out bad!!

Lugerdoc(Tom Heller) on this forum is the go to man for Luger parts, and has worked on/repaired many, many Lugers. You might want to get in touch with him.

[Sergio Natali]

At this point we all agree that gun surely is not a "collectible" at all.
Well, then either you buy it just to make some practice on it, as I did several years ago with a rusty P.08 of Russian capture, or you leave it where it is and start looking for a better gun, like a more shootable mismatched VoPo as "sheepherder" said.

Seen its cost, perhaps I would get it, but I would NOT shoot it, stay safe.

Sergio

[ithacaartist]

Aha! My suspicions are borne out by the pics and further description. Dale, your guess is exactly valid, lack of "education" notwithstanding, and your analysis of how the roundness of the sear's corner causes the problem is spot on! The corner of the striker's latch lug doesn't look all that healthy, either. That's it: blocked by the safety bar, but also set up to fire when the trigger is pulled. The angular foibles of the corners combined with the pressure of the firing pin spring make it so that the safety bar is all that's keeping it from firing. Release the lever, boom.

I spy the marks of a file, I think, on the rounded corner on the sear bar. The side view shows how much meat was removed, which allows the sear to be unlatched relatively early when the trigger is pulled. Too much may have been taken off for the part to ever work correctly again, unless built back up with a little TIG welding, or other compensatory measures taken with the remainder of this system.

Tom Heller can probably better make this call, but there may be enough material left to dress the corners again and re-establish the proper angles and smooth crispness. If not, viable replacements for the sear bar and striker would seem to be the fastest, most effective way to get 'er going again, and very likely he can fix you up with what you need.

[no4mk1t]

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

Aha! My suspicions are borne out by the pics and further description. Dale, your guess is exactly valid, lack of "education" notwithstanding, and your analysis of how the roundness of the sear's corner causes the problem is spot on! The corner of the striker's latch lug doesn't look all that healthy, either. That's it: blocked by the safety bar, but also set up to fire when the trigger is pulled. The angular foibles of the corners combined with the pressure of the firing pin spring make it so that the safety bar is all that's keeping it from firing. Release the lever, boom.

I spy the marks of a file, I think, on the rounded corner on the sear bar. The side view shows how much meat was removed, which allows the sear to be unlatched relatively early when the trigger is pulled. Too much may have been taken off for the part to ever work correctly again, unless built back up with a little TIG welding, or other compensatory measures taken with the remainder of this system.

Tom Heller can probably better make this call, but there may be enough material left to dress the corners again and re-establish the proper angles and smooth crispness. If not, viable replacements for the sear bar and striker would seem to be the fastest, most effective way to get 'er going again, and very likely he can fix you up with what you need.

That was my first thought when I looked at the sear bar under magnification, that someone tried to "improve" the trigger pull.
The striker surface didn't look that bad to me, but I don't have anything to compare it too.
Most of my gun tinkering has been with M1's and M14's and a little 1911 and Browning Hi Power. "Rounded" and "sear" are two things that don't go together no matter what the weapon is.

Many thanks for confirming my suspicions. I'll contact Tom and see what it will take to effect repairs.

[nukem556]

Man....buy it now for 200, and i'll gladly give you 300 plus shipping.

Distinguished Rifleman # 1353

[no4mk1t]

Originally Posted by nukem556

Man....buy it now for 200, and i'll gladly give you 300 plus shipping

I did just that today.

I've got other gun projects occupying the front burner, a complete makeover on a Krag. New wood, new barrel, rust and nitre blue the parts. I'm down to fitting the stock now and it's slow go as this is my first stock work of this magnitude. The stock was supposed to be 80% finished when I bought it, and it was...compared to a tree.
But the bluing is done and the new barrel is installed.

Then I have two Marlins apart and their barreled actions at the smith being cut and threaded for suppressors.

Need to get these projects completed before starting another makeover. But, in due time...

[no4mk1t]

Originally Posted by nukem556

Distinguished Rifleman # 1353

You shoot with the PSMA boys I presume? Or Mid-Carolina?

[Lugerdoc]

I do have several complete relieved PO8 sear bars @$50 + S&H, which would be less costly than attempting to restore your present one. TH