Another "what's it worth" question...

Olle · 06-23-2015, 11:12 AM

A friend of mine has this .30 commercial, it's definitely not the most desirable Luger variation but I would like to buy it just because I want a nice, matching Luger in an affordable price range. I think I can get it for $1,100, but I would like to know a little bit more about it first.

It doesn't have many numbered parts, the matching numbers I have found are on the frame, barrel, rear toggle (last two digits) and side plate (last digit), but there's also a non matching number on the rear of the breech block. This is what I can see just after a field strip, but from what I can tell there's no other numbered parts.

So does this look correct to you guys, and what do you think about the price? I know that the pictures aren't all that great, but the gun looks great in person, maybe a 95% or so.

DavidJayUden · 06-23-2015, 11:34 AM

Look closely for numbers, as they are "hidden" on the commercial guns. Even if all matching, $1100 for a .30 cal. seems to be right at the top of the market. Although the gun looks to be in good shape, I'd personally pass until the price drops to the $950 range.

sheepherder · 06-23-2015, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

Even if all matching, $1100 for a .30 cal. seems to be right at the top of the market. Although the gun looks to be in good shape, I'd personally pass until the price drops to the $950 range.

Maybe if a F2F sale w/no FFL fees, no sales tax, no shipping...And if you live in an area with few/no Luger sales...

I like the 30 caliber, and have bought & sold a couple...But David's price would be the most I'd pay...And that would have to be a F2F sale...I'd offer $100 less...And walk if seller give me a line of BS...

DonVoigt · 06-23-2015, 01:15 PM

Sounds like a mis-match.
The side plate should be numbered on the bottom with both digits.
A "wrong" number (anywhere) is odd and not a good sign.

The "lines" on the side plate are not right, should be smooth like the rest of the pistol; maybe a number was removed?

John Sabato · 06-23-2015, 01:36 PM

I think the price is too high. Overall the finish is nice, even if the gun turns out to be a mismatch numbers.

I agree that the "lines" on the face of the sideplate appears to be from something being sanded off and then refinished. But it doesn't look like enough metal was removed as if a serial number was removed... perhaps it was just a little rusty and they used a sandpaper that was too coarse to clean it up before refinishing.

The Takedown lever has marks around the edges of the pivot point that appears that someone who didn't know how to take down a Luger may have used pliers to assist them in turning the lever.

All in all I don't think the gun is worth more than $800-900 in this condition.

Just my $0.02

Mac Cat · 06-23-2015, 02:07 PM

It's not a collectable piece.
I think $900 is about right, if it shoots well.
Then again, it's your friend!

Nice photos!

Edward Tinker · 06-23-2015, 02:41 PM

I am unsure what you mean by numbers on the rear of the breachblock?

And the values above, I think for a 30 luger, they are too high, as it will cost more to shoot it, etc.

Ed

wlyon · 06-23-2015, 03:47 PM

Too high priced and may be a mismatch. Maybe in the $800-900 range. Bill

Olle · 06-23-2015, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Sounds like a mis-match.
The side plate should be numbered on the bottom with both digits.
A "wrong" number (anywhere) is odd and not a good sign.

The "lines" on the side plate are not right, should be smooth like the rest of the pistol; maybe a number was removed?

I found the last digit of the serial stamped inside, but you made me look again and the last two digits are actually stamped on the bottom edge. The side plate doesn't really look sanded, it's more like heavy high spot wear. It's not as nice as the rest of the pistol, for sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

I am unsure what you mean by numbers on the rear of the breachblock?

If you look at it from the rear, there's a two digit number (not matching) right next to the firing pin retainer. Like Don said, finding odd numbers is not a good sign and the rear toggle has a "7" stamped underneath. Did they ever use any extra numbers like batch numbers, assembly numbers, date codes etc? This is pretty common on other guns, but I don't know if DWM ever did it?

mrerick · 06-23-2015, 06:03 PM

Yes - individual department inspectors had a wide range of personal inspection stamps. Sometimes numbers / letters and sometimes unusual symbols.

This wasn't standardized until much later at Mauser where the "WR" stamp was instituted.

Marc

Olle · 06-23-2015, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrerick

Yes - individual department inspectors had a wide range of personal inspection stamps. Sometimes numbers / letters and sometimes unusual symbols.

This wasn't standardized until much later at Mauser where the "WR" stamp was instituted.

Marc

Ah... so if the breech block is unnumbered, it can still have some kind of other numbers then? Or was this part supposed to be numbered to the gun? I haven't found any numbers (yet...) on the front toggle link, so I suppose that the breech block may not be numbered to the gun either.

I might just take the whole gun apart and check the parts for numbers, if nothing else for educational purposes.

alvin · 06-24-2015, 06:07 AM

Mismatched, hard to go over $1k. Although I witnessed people bidding on mismatched guns to much higher price occasionally, but I have never met such a bidder when I play seller's role. Not a single one,,, God knows, probably due to bad luck? All of them went vacation.

Originally, I thought selling low end guns should be much easier -- turned out to be wrong. US market is a weird place, stores selling very cheap going out of business one after another (including a few gun shops that I saw here, but not only gun shops, even including stores selling regular home goodies). In theory, low price should attract many many buyers, but .. no.

So, be very careful on price if gun is mismatched.

Olle · 06-24-2015, 09:17 AM

Ok, I still don't know for sure what the mismatch would be...?

DonVoigt · 06-24-2015, 09:25 AM

Ollie,
you said:
"If you look at it from the rear, there's a two digit number (not matching) right next to the firing pin retainer."

That is what is mis-matched.

Dwight Gruber · 06-24-2015, 10:21 AM

The breechblock serial number is placed on the left side, below the line of the receiver extension, where it cannot be seen without disassembling the gun. On Lugers of this era there is commonly a number stamped on the rear face of the breechblock, next to the firing pin retainer, which has no relation to the pistol's serial number. The reason for this number is unknown.

--Dwight

Norme · 06-24-2015, 10:52 AM

The likelihood of a .30 Commercial having mis-matched parts is low, few if any, endured the rigors of combat.
Norm

rhuff · 06-24-2015, 02:32 PM

I purchased an alphabet Luger many years ago, and the breechblock and extractor had been replaced with a non-matching Luger part.....not an aftermarket part. A lot of these commercial Lugers got shot, and some/many broke parts.

The extractor on the OPs gun should be numbered and matching, but you will have to remove it to see the numbers.

Olle · 06-25-2015, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwight Gruber

The breechblock serial number is placed on the left side, below the line of the receiver extension, where it cannot be seen without disassembling the gun. On Lugers of this era there is commonly a number stamped on the rear face of the breechblock, next to the firing pin retainer, which has no relation to the pistol's serial number. The reason for this number is unknown.

--Dwight

Ok, so the number I'm seeing is not necessarily relevant. Still, there are no numbers on the left side, just a C/N stamp. The only number on the breech block is the one next to the firing pin retainer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhuff

The extractor on the OPs gun should be numbered and matching, but you will have to remove it to see the numbers.

I just removed it, and it's not numbered. It's stamped "GELADEN", and that's it.

06-23-2015, 11:12 AM	#1
Olle User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,149 Thanks: 159 Thanked 663 Times in 318 Posts	Another "what's it worth" question... A friend of mine has this .30 commercial, it's definitely not the most desirable Luger variation but I would like to buy it just because I want a nice, matching Luger in an affordable price range. I think I can get it for $1,100, but I would like to know a little bit more about it first. It doesn't have many numbered parts, the matching numbers I have found are on the frame, barrel, rear toggle (last two digits) and side plate (last digit), but there's also a non matching number on the rear of the breech block. This is what I can see just after a field strip, but from what I can tell there's no other numbered parts. So does this look correct to you guys, and what do you think about the price? I know that the pictures aren't all that great, but the gun looks great in person, maybe a 95% or so. Attached Thumbnails

06-23-2015, 01:36 PM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	I think the price is too high. Overall the finish is nice, even if the gun turns out to be a mismatch numbers. I agree that the "lines" on the face of the sideplate appears to be from something being sanded off and then refinished. But it doesn't look like enough metal was removed as if a serial number was removed... perhaps it was just a little rusty and they used a sandpaper that was too coarse to clean it up before refinishing. The Takedown lever has marks around the edges of the pivot point that appears that someone who didn't know how to take down a Luger may have used pliers to assist them in turning the lever. All in all I don't think the gun is worth more than $800-900 in this condition. Just my $0.02 __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-23-2015, 02:41 PM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	I am unsure what you mean by numbers on the rear of the breachblock? And the values above, I think for a 30 luger, they are too high, as it will cost more to shoot it, etc. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

06-23-2015, 03:47 PM	#8
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,614 Thanks: 3,140 Thanked 2,519 Times in 939 Posts	Too high priced and may be a mismatch. Maybe in the $800-900 range. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

06-23-2015, 06:03 PM	#10
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Yes - individual department inspectors had a wide range of personal inspection stamps. Sometimes numbers / letters and sometimes unusual symbols. This wasn't standardized until much later at Mauser where the "WR" stamp was instituted. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

06-23-2015, 11:34 AM	#2
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Look closely for numbers, as they are "hidden" on the commercial guns. Even if all matching, $1100 for a .30 cal. seems to be right at the top of the market. Although the gun looks to be in good shape, I'd personally pass until the price drops to the $950 range.

06-23-2015, 01:15 PM	#4
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,347 Times in 2,038 Posts	Sounds like a mis-match. The side plate should be numbered on the bottom with both digits. A "wrong" number (anywhere) is odd and not a good sign. The "lines" on the side plate are not right, should be smooth like the rest of the pistol; maybe a number was removed?

06-23-2015, 02:07 PM	#6
Mac Cat Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 670 Thanks: 2,009 Thanked 542 Times in 292 Posts	It's not a collectable piece. I think $900 is about right, if it shoots well. Then again, it's your friend! Nice photos!

06-24-2015, 06:07 AM	#12
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Mismatched, hard to go over $1k. Although I witnessed people bidding on mismatched guns to much higher price occasionally, but I have never met such a bidder when I play seller's role. Not a single one,,, God knows, probably due to bad luck? All of them went vacation. Originally, I thought selling low end guns should be much easier -- turned out to be wrong. US market is a weird place, stores selling very cheap going out of business one after another (including a few gun shops that I saw here, but not only gun shops, even including stores selling regular home goodies). In theory, low price should attract many many buyers, but .. no. So, be very careful on price if gun is mismatched.

06-24-2015, 09:17 AM	#13
Olle User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,149 Thanks: 159 Thanked 663 Times in 318 Posts	Ok, I still don't know for sure what the mismatch would be...?

06-24-2015, 09:25 AM	#14
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,347 Times in 2,038 Posts	Ollie, you said: "If you look at it from the rear, there's a two digit number (not matching) right next to the firing pin retainer." That is what is mis-matched.

06-24-2015, 10:21 AM	#15
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,889 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,281 Times in 423 Posts	The breechblock serial number is placed on the left side, below the line of the receiver extension, where it cannot be seen without disassembling the gun. On Lugers of this era there is commonly a number stamped on the rear face of the breechblock, next to the firing pin retainer, which has no relation to the pistol's serial number. The reason for this number is unknown. --Dwight

06-24-2015, 10:52 AM	#16
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,414 Thanks: 224 Thanked 2,591 Times in 930 Posts	The likelihood of a .30 Commercial having mis-matched parts is low, few if any, endured the rigors of combat. Norm

06-24-2015, 02:32 PM	#17
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,270 Thanks: 2,686 Thanked 958 Times in 704 Posts	I purchased an alphabet Luger many years ago, and the breechblock and extractor had been replaced with a non-matching Luger part.....not an aftermarket part. A lot of these commercial Lugers got shot, and some/many broke parts. The extractor on the OPs gun should be numbered and matching, but you will have to remove it to see the numbers.