DWM 1920's commercial (i think)

[Krisgolden2007]

Good afternoon fellow guys and gals, i was directed you your forum from another gun forum. They told me this is the place to go with Luger questions.

I just recently picked up this Luger in a trade. It's my second Luger i own (other is a Erma .22 Luger). But i have a few questions that hopefully some one can help me with. This is what i know about it and correct me if I'm wrong! (cause its what i was told by the original owner, but I've found some problems with his story)

It's a DWM commercial 1920's Luger, .30 Luger is the cal. with a 3.75 length barrel. It is fully matching numbers through out the gun its original no replaced parts. Low 3 digit serial number 679. Rifling is shiny and in pretty good shape for its age. It was imported to the united states in the 20's for commercial sales.

So my questions are as follows
Is the above information correct?
Approximate year based upon serial #s?
Is the mag supposed to have a wooden bottom? because i think the plastic one is a repo?
Value? based on the conditions you can see in the pictures.
And any information on this gun or manufacture would be great!

Thanks for all you help in advance!

~Kris

[DavidJayUden]

I'll take a crack at a couple of your questions.
It is a "low" number in the M block, but not actually a low number as they repeat with each new letter of the alphabet.
I can't tell from the photo but some parts that should be strawed color seem to be blued.
The magazine, I believe, is an older mec-gar or similar commercial product, good for shooting but of no interest to collectors. But the finish confuses me a bit, so I may be way off.
Overall a nice pistol, but not particularly collectable due to commonality. The .30 cal has its fans but is a but more pricey to shoot than the 9mm.
I'll leave the year of manufacture to the guys with all the pricey books...
$700 would be a ballpark guesstimate.
Welcome to the world of Lugers!
dju

[Edward Tinker]

I am feeling it is around 1924 or 1925

The info given by the seller was pretty accurate. DWM is the original makers and made them from WWI till around the early 1930 time period.

Value is around that or a bit less IMHO.

Welcome to the forum!

[Krisgolden2007]

Thanks for the reply, that's y I posted here honestly I know nothing about these guns except they are very sexy looking! The cal doesn't bother me because I'll be reloading for it and I enjoy the buildup to shoot. But the pictures don't do justice for the wear in the finish. The guy I traded for it said he had it appraised and he was saying 1200-1500 range I wasn't sure so that's why I'm asking. Value to me means nothing cause it's not going anywhere. I feel I got it for a fair trade but just curious as we all are.

[Edward Tinker]

Gun shops (appraisers) don't know much about Lugers most of the time, and they place the higher value for many a lower value for rarer stuff IMHO.

[Dwight Gruber]

Gun shops (appraisers) generally know enough to offer immorally low amounts to a walk-in who wants to sell, and then ask correspondingly high prices in their turn to sell it.

--Dwight

[Sergio Natali]

Originally Posted by Dwight Gruber

Gun shops (appraisers) generally know enough to offer immorally low amounts to a walk-in who wants to sell, and then ask correspondingly high prices in their turn to sell it.

--Dwight

I agree, it's exactly the same all over the world, here in Italy is no exception.

[DavidJayUden]

Chris:
We have a shooting or reloading section below. Watch it as I know some guys have discussed reloading the .30.
Have fun, you have a very nice shooter.
And I totally agree with your "sexy" description...
dju

[rhuff]

I agree with the above info, that it should make a nice shooter for you. These Lugers are referred to a Alphabet Lugers. I own a 1921 DWM in 30 Luger. I have to think that it has been refinished some time ago with bluing on the normally strawed parts, but perhaps the photos are throwing my old eyes off.

I reload 30 Luger, as do others on this forum. They can be a bit tricky until you get everything adjusted correctly. They are a fun caliber to shoot......Oh, and welcome to the forum.

[Krisgolden2007]

I'll try later tonight to get my wife to take some better pictures so you guys can see the finish. The pictures I took don't do justice. I'll admit they suck! Lol. I want to say thank you to everyone who's welcomed me so far and have gave me info ! I guess I did leave out one question. I've found brass and bullets (86gr hornady sp rn) but I can't find load data any where. I have bullseye and unique power (can buy different if needed) but a starting gr and max weight would be great to find. I'm a very cautious reloaded and don't like venturing down any roads with out a start!!! Been doing slot of surfing the web for loads but not many places have info on that caliber let slowness that bullet.

Thanks again everyone

[K.Wilhelm]

Kris- I have a .30 Commercial near your production era with about 85% blue and a real nice bore. I also handload for it with HP-38 powder which works fine for me; but a gentleman on this forum from whom I've learned a lot about Lugers uses Red Dot. I'm going to refer you to reloading manuals for exact charges becuse everyone's pistol is different. Welcome to the addiction! Bill

[Arizona Slim]

Originally Posted by Krisgolden2007

I'll try later tonight to get my wife to take some better pictures so you guys can see the finish. The pictures I took don't do justice. I'll admit they suck! Lol. I want to say thank you to everyone who's welcomed me so far and have gave me info ! I guess I did leave out one question. I've found brass and bullets (86gr hornady sp rn) but I can't find load data any where. I have bullseye and unique power (can buy different if needed) but a starting gr and max weight would be great to find. I'm a very cautious reloaded and don't like venturing down any roads with out a start!!! Been doing slot of surfing the web for loads but not many places have info on that caliber let slowness that bullet.

Thanks again everyone

Hi Chris, welcome to the forum and here is some information that may be helpful if you want to reload for the 30 Luger:

My handload for the 100 grain Plinker is 4.4 grains Bullseye and the CCI #500 primer in the Winchester case. Chrono'd velocity is a mild 1084 fps. It pretty much shoots to point of aim with the fixed sights and has never failed to function in any way. In a strong pistol like the HP this bullet could be driven somewhat faster if desired. Another 100 fps is possible if you want to try and duplicate the DWM load.

This is not my personal information but from another reloader that I found on Google.com.

Lon

[alvin]

This is my favorite Luger. I sold my Erfurt, sold my 1900, sold my Simson, but I kept my DWM 1923. Need one instance. It's very well made.

[Krisgolden2007]

See that's where I'm at a loss on reloading for the .30 Luger round. My Speer, Sierra, and hornady books don't like the round. My Lyman book calls out a lighter bullet then I want to use and then the other 2 they call out are cast. I don't cast my own just buy what I can get my fingers on! Lol that's y I was looking for a start grain. Hopefully I'm not taking this post off topic cause I have been reading over on the reloading part! But any way I'll try the new pics later, wife's still at work. But thank you all again for your info!!!!! Greatly appreciate it all!!!

[Krisgolden2007]

Here are some better pictures actually taken with a camera not my iPad! lol

[FNorm]

'M' block was made very later 1923 into 2/3 of 1924.

FN

[rhuff]

Kris,

Maybe I can help get you started:

(1) 85gr Jacketed bullet

Bullseye Starting 3.8gr Max 4.2gr

Unique Starting 4.6gr Max 5.2gr

Red Dot Starting 4.0gr Max 4.5gr This is the powder that I use the most on jacketed bullets.

I load my 30 Luger rounds as long as I can get away with and still function in the mag and chamber. It is the safest, and they feed better. Usually 1.163-1.168in.


The Hornady bullet is .308 dia and not .309in. It will work, but you need to be very careful about having good neck tension or you will get set back on chambering the round and the chamber pressures will go up markedly.

[Krisgolden2007]

Rhuff thank you for that load info!! That's exactly what I was looking for. So are you saying the bullet would be better to choice something in the .309 range or do u feel the .308 will be fine. I've read around about the set back problems and these need to be good and crimped cases.

[rhuff]

You have the bullets, so you can try them and see. Make up 4-5 dummy rounds(no powder or primer) and try cycling them through your Luger. Measure the OAL before and after, and see if there is significant set back.

Hornady produces(occasionally) their XTP .309 bullet. Natchez Shooting did have some for sale. I purchased 100 of them, and have them loaded up, but have not been to the range yet.

To try and help correct the potential setback on the Hornady and Sierra 85gr JSP bullets, I have added a cannalure to them and used a Lee FCD (collet type) to secure them. Do NOT try to use a hard crimp on the .308 bullets, as you will defeat your purpose. A hard crimp will put a depression on the bullet where it is applied, and the brass case mouth will spring back giving you less help on setback. It is all done with neck tension and getting everything set up correctly.


The 30 Luger round can be a bit frustrating, as can the 357Sig round. They are not like the good old 45ACP, 9mm, 38 Special, etc. Just go slow and check you work closely.....above all be SAFE!!

[K.Wilhelm]

I don't know which I am in this instance, but in any case I've been loading the .30 Luger without issue with Lee dies for several months. I am using the .308 86 grain .30 Mauser soft point bullets since I couldn't get .309 bullets. Anyway, maybe I wasn't intimidated since I have loaded several calibers of bottleneck pistol cartridges for a few years (.32-20; .38-40; and .44-40). Really the only one that has caused me much of a problem is the .44-40 because of the really thin case wall. I greatly enjoy shooting all of the bottleneck calibers, but have a special fondness for the .32-20 and .30 Luger. Bill