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Unread 09-26-2004, 07:54 PM   #1
John D.
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Post Krieghoff â??Early Sâ? to "Mid-S".....

This piece is actually quite interesting, as itâ??s a late serialized version of an â??Early Sâ?, by Mr. Gibsonâ??s definition. However, several of the markings shows it also falls into a â??Mid-series Sâ?, as Krieghoff began the transition from external to internal serialization. In short, what you will find in this example, is that Krieghoff â??transitionedâ? production to meet new guidelines. By example â?? no one walked into the factory one day and said â??clear the workbenches â?? NOW WE WILL MAKE a NEW VARIATION to confuse Collectors in 60 years!!â?â?¦

Rather, Krieghoff manufacturing was focused on other armaments, rather then Luger production â?? and therefore, â??firmâ? lines in the sand are somewhat blurred between what is â??correctâ? by Mr. Gibsonâ??s excellent work and research â?? and what appears as verified pieces. To that point, written work establishes what is â??mostly correct for the vast majority of examined pieces in a variationâ?, and yet â?? Lugers do exist that show what and how a factory went from production techniques that decided what we determine as â??one variationâ? to another.

In the example below, you will see how Krieghoff transitioned from one such variation â?? â??Early Sâ? - to the â??Mid-Sâ? series. Itâ??s an interesting piece, as it falls into â??mostlyâ? correctâ? for an Early S, and where it doesnâ??t meet that criteria, it meets the standards for the next variation â?? the â??Mid-Sâ?. Itâ??s a verified transition Krieghoff, and Iâ??m pleased to have it in my collection.

In the first two photos below, you should spot a departure from the strict â??Early Sâ? definition which included external last two digit serialization on the exposed parts. In this case, those will be the take down and toggle train (rear & center toggle links). More on these points in a moment.

With serial number â??2053â? â?? it falls into the last production of the â??Early Sâ? (and even better into several other Early/Mid HKs in my collection). Overall this HK would rate at 97%/70% (blue/straw) and includes the correct LWaA 2/stamps throughout. As well, it includes the proper â??fat woodâ? grips as in the Early S variation, matched MAG and correct on both the small parts and major parts groups throughout.

Enjoyâ?¦..









Stamps of this production era run include acceptance of both the frame (as seen on the rail), and the progression of the following: LWaA Stage 1 (early); Proof mark; LWaA Stage 2 (early). On the rail, is again found the LWaA Stage 2.



Barrel size and LWaA 2:



Frame and lower group detail

The stripped frame. A couple of things to note â?? including the machining of the lug and the GESICHERT stamp



Note the hue of fire-blued mag release and the deeper "V" cut of the front grip strap, an HK production trademark which differs from all other manufacturers.



The rear frame well. Notice the HK tell-tales as part of the manufacturing process. These are unique to HK, and differ from Simson, Mauser and any other manufacturers:




continued next postâ?¦..
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Unread 09-26-2004, 07:54 PM   #2
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Inside of side-plate â?? note the placement of the LWaA 2 on both the lever and the sideplate.




The external of the sideplate shows the traditional "Early S" last two digit serialization on the outside, rather then all subsequent HK production, which was inside:



Trigger. Two photos, as this has two markings. One is common to all HKs (digits)







Thumb safety lever: Another classis Early example. Of interest on this specific HK, the full serial is hand scratched on the internal, as the photo below shows:




Safety. Interesting as it includes both the correct LWaA 2 and, as not often found, the external last two digit serialization:







Hold Open: Correct placement and size of the LWaA2. As opposed to other early â??Sâ?, this is not a strawed part.




continued next postâ?¦..
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Unread 09-26-2004, 07:54 PM   #3
John D.
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Take down: In the next few areas, we start deviating from the â??Early Sâ? to the â??Mid Sâ?. The first is in the take down â?? which is NOT externally serialized, but rather, follows the Mid-S variation. Below is the LWaA on the take down lug:



Top end detail
Next â?? letâ??s take a look at the toggle train. Note that the Center (forward) link is not externally serialized as most often found on â??Early Sâ?:



HOWEVER â?? as with the Mid Series â?? it is internally serialized, with the correct LWaA, as is latter Krieghoff production after the â??Early Sâ?:



And the rear link, as well, follows the latter series HK schema on being internally serialization:



Forward breechblock: Is correct with serialization and acceptance/proofs:



Sear bar. There are two ways that these are serialized. Either with the last two digits stamped above the LWaA, or hand scribed in the forward section. This is the latter:




Firing Train: The rear of the firing with the LWaA proof:



continued next postâ?¦..
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Unread 09-26-2004, 07:55 PM   #4
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But an interesting hand serialization on the firing pin. Notice the â??54â?, which is one over the serials for the rest of the parts. Why (ask me why sometime <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> )? Other then the hand scribing, it is un-numbered, but proofed:



And finally the Magazine. Pete asked in Janâ??s Forum about HK mags, and what â??was whatâ? so here is the brief reply I wrote then. A picture of this HKâ??s mag (proper again for the era) is shown below:

First, Iâ??ll caution that collectors should not use the serial number of the matched HK to determine a â??cut offâ? date. Given the tendency of Krieghoff to disperse serial numbers outside a given chamber date range (look at the span of serialized â??1937â? production; for example), assigning proper magazine â??proofingâ? techniques to a â??serial rangeâ? is grossly misleading and inaccurate.

Rather, to understand what is more commonly found, you have to look at the magazine type first and itâ??s correlation to the LWaA as employed on that specific HK. Second, you have to understand the iterations of HK magazines, and when they were used by the factory. For Military Production it was as follows:

rolled/plated -&gt; rolled/blued -&gt; extruded/plated - &gt; extruded/blue
All of these have the aluminum base with the exception of the last iteration â??extruded/blueâ? which included predominately the Aluminum base, but in the final stages (â??lateâ? 1944 and 1945 HK) included the plastic base.

OK â?? letâ??s take that magazine time line above and try to match production year chamber dates against it:

rolled/plated -&gt; rolled/blued -&gt; extruded/plated - &gt; extruded/blue
G date -1936 -&gt; 1937 -&gt;1937 â?? 1938 -&gt; 1940/41/42/43/early 44

Now â?? for â??1936â? and â??1937â? production, even these are not absolutes, as some â??1936â? production may have the Haenel extruded/plated magazines).

Still with me? Goodâ?¦..

Here we go - in general terms:

- Nearly all PLATED (rolled and/or extruded) HK mags will have the serial number on the base and the LWaA 1 above and upside down (towards the â??frontâ? of the mag). Since the magazine types appear on the preponderance of HK volume, some collectors mistakenly have come to the conclusion that â??thisâ? type of proof is the only HK correct magazine proof placement/serial combination. However;

- The ONLY mag variation where LWaA 1 should appear UNDER the serial number is on the ROLLED/BLUED variation magazines (predominantly in the same orientation as the serial number, ie right-side-up). This magazine variation primarily occurs during production year â??1937â?, but again â?? caution on trying to assign a â??serial numberâ? cut-off or cut-in â?? as itâ??s impossible;

- The only other mag variation the LWaA should appear â??right side upâ? should be extruded/blue marked â??122â? (LWaA Stage 1 early or late) â?? and that too, should be â??aboveâ? the serial number (towards the front of the mag). See John J's attachment above for reference of this variation.

Here is this HKs Mag, which if you followed my comments above (albeit "long-winded" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> ), you understand why it's correct (and serial matched):




And - Dwight???? Nope - no witness marks...??!!!




Best to all,

John D.
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