Help - What's it worth?

[notacatfan]

My dad passed away last month; however, before he passed he asked me to take all of his guns (Mom's not comfortable w/firearms). Among his collection is a 1916 Luger, but I've received differing opinions on its value. Long story short - this belonged to either my dad's grandfather or uncle. It's a 9mm, has "Germany" stamped on the bottom of the barrel, "11" stamped in a couple places and "5980" stamped elsewhere. One individual informed me it was worth about $500; another person said between $1500 and $2000. Basically, I'm trying to decide whether or not I should sell it or keep it in the family. Expertise is appreciated!

[notacatfan]

...and more available...

[lfid]

looks like you likely have an original matching 1916 dwm navy luger barrel + slide , and slide has a non-matching dwm toggle assembly from a commercial likely 1920s era commercial luger in the slide. caliber should be 9mm luger. germany stamp on the barrel would likely indicate a ww1 part merged into the remainder of the commercial luger

the non-matching lower frame asy looks like a 1920s era commercial luger

if frame parts are marked with 11 or 80 numbers that would help value
if barrel bore is shiny and looks sharp edges on the rifling that would help value

parts look like mostly original blue and mechanically excellent

grips look maybe ww1 ish and would help if numbered inside with last two digits of the barrel serial ( ie original from the same 1916 navy ) but that is not very likely

if magazine is as nice as rest of gun that would help value and any number on wood base would be interesting if matches the navy barrel ( again not likely )

assuming all the help items are "yes" Im thinking you have about value $1200 due to parts
and also there should be interest for a "navy" shooter. $500 seems very low and probably a reseller or parts hunter case.

overall this seems like a 6" barrel optioned 1920/23 dwm commercial import with mainly ww1 derived parts , refurbished in germany and sold by an importer in usa to post ww1 market for lugers. I think only one part like barrel or frame required the germany mark for import.
some of these were upgraded in usa with longer barrels etc

really nice ! shooter , semi collector value , I think
good luck ! with the sale - consider placing for sale here in the forum section - after you get more opinions as to value

seems to me you would want to keep it in family - esp if only collector type gun in the estate

Bill

[notacatfan]

Perhaps this will help

[lfid]

very nice original type magazine !

front edge of breechblock dings looks likely it "handled" various stovepipe or reversed empty cartridges probably after the navy slide was added - no big deal just interesting

overall still in $1200 range I think - you might start at $1500 and then reduce down until sells - the for sale forum here allows reductions as time goes by - but not unpriced / auction

suggest you wait until you have other member comments here
Bill

[Ron Smith]

I pretty much agree with Bill.

The Navy parts bring pretty good money. I would call it a high shooter grade as it is. $1200 would be a maximum I would expect, but I think it's worth that to the right buyer. If you sold it to a dealer or parts vendor they would offer you much less, and would make much more.

Ron

[padredan]

i agree it is in the 1100 to 1200 range as a really nice shooter

[DavidJayUden]

If It were mine I'd be looking for a Navy rear toggle link with sight...THEN you have a great shooter.
dju

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by davidjayuden

if it were mine i'd be looking for a navy rear toggle link with sight...then you have a great shooter.
Dju

+1!

[Norme]

Hi Amy, A belated welcome to the forum! This gun may be worth more than you think. Can you post photos of the serial numbers on the front of the frame and the bottom of the barrel. Also one of the little mark towards the back of the left side of the breech block, (that's the first of the three linked parts on the top of the gun). It's possible that this is an almost complete 1916 Navy, missing only the rear sight and toggle, and a new front sight blade.
Regards, Norm

[notacatfan]

Sorry, can you tell me where I would find it on the front of the frame? Easy enough on the barrel... I'll post a few more photos momentarily

[notacatfan]

More photos.

[notacatfan]

I took photos of the front of the frame - where I understand there SHOULD be a number stamped. Am I missing something?

[lfid]

the frame serial area is unnumbered and also does not have a typical navy spec 1916 date on the left external frame rail just in front of the sideplate - so seems like this is not the case of an original navy. note that the barrel does have the typical date on the left side of front sight base. if the bottom underlug of the slide has 80/unnumbered then it is very likely orig to barrel

it is very unusual to see a frame that is not numbered on the front flat area just below where the slide rails engage the frame rail recesses - usually these are thought to be unauthorized frames ( lunchbox specials ) - but could also be a case that some importer purchased a batch of generic frames for later merge with an assortment of the various barrel lengths available ( my guess in this case ). in that case this would seem to be 1920 series when some military parts were provided to export

also the frame unnumbered vertical area seems a bit taller than usual so could be a serial removal and then a factory or vendor reblue - looks more factory to me

orig navy sight would enhance value but also is likely a $300-500 added cost and likely still be mismatched as would the breechblock asy and middle toggle - breechblocks on the orig navys also have the navy crown proof

if someone had a spare nice orig toggle to add and wanted a luger shooter this would be a very presentable shooter and lots more orig than a fake navy

Bill

[alanint]

The very marked line across the front of the frame and the lack of a gradual radius at this spot would indicate that the original frame serial number has been ground off.

[notacatfan]

It is gradual - not a straight line, unfortunately, the flash on the metal makes it look like an abrupt edge.

[Norme]

Hi Amy, The absence of a frame serial number and that commercial proof on the breech block are disappointing. It looks like the only parts that are from a 1916 Navy are the barrel, receiver and the large flanged rear toggle pin. Also, I am not sure if selling a gun with an unnumbered frame is strictly legal. Does anyone know?
Regards, Norm

[SIGP2101]

It is is obvious that frame serial # has been grind off as well as rear site has been grind modified.
Also V notch has been modified to U notch or uneven square notch, with front inverted V who ever tried to improve sights and use her as shooter didn't do it right.

[John Sabato]

Amy, please check your private messages using the link at the top right corner of this webpage. Thanks.

[notacatfan]

John et al.,

Thanks so much for the input (I read the private message). I will be stripping the frame and selling everything BUT the frame itself. Rather ironic, really. I've been in law enforcement and corrections for 14 years (obviously not an ATF agent though). Neither my father nor I would be interested in dealing with a potentially illegal weapon.

Thanks again.