Rebuild a Stock Lug?

5card · 06-21-2002, 12:56 PM

Can the stock lug be replaced on an Artillery Luger that was ground off for importation?

John Sabato · 06-21-2002, 01:21 PM

Yes, but it certainly would not be inexpensive...

You would have to have a master crafts metal worker either build up the bottom of the rear grip strap with sufficient welding and then have the weld machined to produce the new stock lug followed by having at least the grip frame refinished... a complex problem, but not impossible.

Another alternative would be to find a junk Luger frame that perhaps had the top damaged so as to be unusable and then have the appropriate part of the grip strap with the stock lug transplanted by welding, and refinishing...

Resurrecting and restoring a shootable Artillery model to original condition certainly sounds like a worthwhile project to me... Might as well send it to Thor for the finish restoration and do it right while you are at it...

I would love for whoever does it to take photos of the process in stages and allow them to be posted here for all to see... keep us advised of what you do with your artillery. and good luck.

Edward Tinker · 06-21-2002, 02:19 PM

So, to me, it is possible, but hardly worthwhile [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

One of those, I can do it because I want to... It could never be anything more than a "restored" Luger, so unless it has family history or you want to try your hand on it...

Thor · 06-21-2002, 03:35 PM

You can buy a frame from Sarco for $80 and switch them out! Most all with have stock lugs on them!

John Sabato · 06-21-2002, 03:45 PM

thor,

In order for Scard to use the resulting "artillery Luger" with a stock legally, it would have to have been a replacement frame from a genuine Artillery Luger...

If it is only to be used as a long barreled pistol that looks like an artillery, then a stock lug isn't even necessary... The ideal situation would be for Sarco to hand pick a frame with a serial number that was reliably known to be within recorded Artillery Luger production. Then and only then would the resulting "artillery" Luger be considered Legal with a stock...

If he can get Sarco to cooperate, then he could build his FrankenArtilleryLuger to be legal for a stock, and save the existing grip frame that has had the stock lug shaved off for use in building a shooter with any barrel length of his choice including a BABY... (how long has Mr. Clark had your Luger now ? [img]smile.gif[/img] )

Another consideration is whether or not the Luger as it is now is all matching numbers... reworking or restoration of the stock lug would then have some meaning with regard to it's value... less than an unaltered Artillery, but more than just a parts gun made from the parts of different Lugers.

Whether it is 'worth it" or not is purely a personal decision...

Thor · 06-21-2002, 03:54 PM

True you are regarding the Arty frame! I aint telling about der baby! (you never mess up our source of good Luger help)

Ron Wood · 06-21-2002, 07:14 PM

I know of a couple of people who have restored artilleries by welding on the stock lug from a "scrap" frame. If properly cut and some care is taken in welding (preferrably TIG, but one gunsmith used plain old acetylene!), the end result looked very good externally.

Pete Ebbink · 06-21-2002, 10:50 PM

I heard that the baby lugers had their grip/frames cut down and re-welded for a smaller 7-shot magazine.

Could this also be done; taking the bottom off a trash luger with a stock lug and then cutting and replacing the luger in question with this recycled section of the trash luger...?

Ron Wood · 06-21-2002, 11:05 PM

You don't have to cut all the way through the grip as you would do to make a Baby Luger. To replace the stock lug, it is only necessary to cut out the rear grip strap above and below the lug.

Brandon · 06-21-2002, 11:09 PM

Gosh you guys are smart! you never cease to amaze me! <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />
Brandon

Hub · 06-21-2002, 11:29 PM

If you can not find anybody locally to do the cutting and tig welding let me know as we have done the same for others in the forum.
Neil

Thor · 06-21-2002, 11:59 PM

I have seen some of Hub's work, I highly recommend it if you go this route! <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />

Hugh · 06-22-2002, 02:45 AM

Hub's the man if you need a frame welded, superb work! <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />

5card · 07-07-2002, 02:32 PM

JS,
What would a frame with a serial number that was reliably known to be within recorded Artillery Luger production BE? Do you have any idea of the artillery serial number range for 1916 be? Finding a new fram seems to be the easyest way for now?

John Sabato · 07-08-2002, 12:57 AM

Some production figures are available in the technical info pages of the homepage http://www.lugerforum.com

I do no personally have records containing production by serial numbers, but some members here do. Perhaps one of them could give an accurate answer to your question about appropriate serial number ranges for 1916 Artillery Lugers...

Lugerdoc · 07-08-2002, 08:05 AM

I doubt that you'll ever find a published serial number range for Artillery lugers, as it is my understanding that they we mixed in with the normal 4" barrel PO8 production. Tom H.

Lonnie Zimmerman · 07-09-2002, 12:56 AM

Tom; wouldn"t this allow any frame from a 1916 DWM to be used as an artillery model?
Lonnie

John Sabato · 07-09-2002, 01:41 PM

Lonnie, I don't know about "allowing" it, but it would certainly make it difficult for ATF to prove that it wasn't an original artillery Luger... [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

06-21-2002, 12:56 PM	#1
5card User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: PA Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Rebuild a Stock Lug? Can the stock lug be replaced on an Artillery Luger that was ground off for importation?

06-21-2002, 01:21 PM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Yes, but it certainly would not be inexpensive... You would have to have a master crafts metal worker either build up the bottom of the rear grip strap with sufficient welding and then have the weld machined to produce the new stock lug followed by having at least the grip frame refinished... a complex problem, but not impossible. Another alternative would be to find a junk Luger frame that perhaps had the top damaged so as to be unusable and then have the appropriate part of the grip strap with the stock lug transplanted by welding, and refinishing... Resurrecting and restoring a shootable Artillery model to original condition certainly sounds like a worthwhile project to me... Might as well send it to Thor for the finish restoration and do it right while you are at it... I would love for whoever does it to take photos of the process in stages and allow them to be posted here for all to see... keep us advised of what you do with your artillery. and good luck. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-21-2002, 02:19 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,930 Thanks: 2,030 Thanked 4,527 Times in 2,090 Posts	So, to me, it is possible, but hardly worthwhile [img]biggrin.gif[/img] One of those, I can do it because I want to... It could never be anything more than a "restored" Luger, so unless it has family history or you want to try your hand on it... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

06-21-2002, 03:35 PM	#4
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	You can buy a frame from Sarco for $80 and switch them out! Most all with have stock lugs on them! __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

06-21-2002, 03:45 PM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	thor, In order for Scard to use the resulting "artillery Luger" with a stock legally, it would have to have been a replacement frame from a genuine Artillery Luger... If it is only to be used as a long barreled pistol that looks like an artillery, then a stock lug isn't even necessary... The ideal situation would be for Sarco to hand pick a frame with a serial number that was reliably known to be within recorded Artillery Luger production. Then and only then would the resulting "artillery" Luger be considered Legal with a stock... If he can get Sarco to cooperate, then he could build his FrankenArtilleryLuger to be legal for a stock, and save the existing grip frame that has had the stock lug shaved off for use in building a shooter with any barrel length of his choice including a BABY... (how long has Mr. Clark had your Luger now ? [img]smile.gif[/img] ) Another consideration is whether or not the Luger as it is now is all matching numbers... reworking or restoration of the stock lug would then have some meaning with regard to it's value... less than an unaltered Artillery, but more than just a parts gun made from the parts of different Lugers. Whether it is 'worth it" or not is purely a personal decision... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-21-2002, 03:54 PM	#6
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	True you are regarding the Arty frame! I aint telling about der baby! (you never mess up our source of good Luger help) __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

06-21-2002, 07:14 PM	#7
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,020 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,173 Times in 1,701 Posts	I know of a couple of people who have restored artilleries by welding on the stock lug from a "scrap" frame. If properly cut and some care is taken in welding (preferrably TIG, but one gunsmith used plain old acetylene!), the end result looked very good externally. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-21-2002, 10:50 PM	#8
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	I heard that the baby lugers had their grip/frames cut down and re-welded for a smaller 7-shot magazine. Could this also be done; taking the bottom off a trash luger with a stock lug and then cutting and replacing the luger in question with this recycled section of the trash luger...?

06-21-2002, 11:05 PM	#9
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,020 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,173 Times in 1,701 Posts	You don't have to cut all the way through the grip as you would do to make a Baby Luger. To replace the stock lug, it is only necessary to cut out the rear grip strap above and below the lug. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-21-2002, 11:09 PM	#10
Brandon User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 329 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Gosh you guys are smart! you never cease to amaze me! <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" /> Brandon

06-21-2002, 11:29 PM	#11
Hub User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Decatur, IN Posts: 61 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	If you can not find anybody locally to do the cutting and tig welding let me know as we have done the same for others in the forum. Neil

06-21-2002, 11:59 PM	#12
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	I have seen some of Hub's work, I highly recommend it if you go this route! <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" /> __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

06-22-2002, 02:45 AM	#13
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	Hub's the man if you need a frame welded, superb work! <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" /> __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

07-07-2002, 02:32 PM	#14
5card User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: PA Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	JS, What would a frame with a serial number that was reliably known to be within recorded Artillery Luger production BE? Do you have any idea of the artillery serial number range for 1916 be? Finding a new fram seems to be the easyest way for now?

07-08-2002, 12:57 AM	#15
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Some production figures are available in the technical info pages of the homepage http://www.lugerforum.com I do no personally have records containing production by serial numbers, but some members here do. Perhaps one of them could give an accurate answer to your question about appropriate serial number ranges for 1916 Artillery Lugers... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-08-2002, 08:05 AM	#16
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	I doubt that you'll ever find a published serial number range for Artillery lugers, as it is my understanding that they we mixed in with the normal 4" barrel PO8 production. Tom H. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

07-09-2002, 12:56 AM	#17
Lonnie Zimmerman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 523 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Tom; wouldn"t this allow any frame from a 1916 DWM to be used as an artillery model? Lonnie __________________ Lonnie Zimmerman

07-09-2002, 01:41 PM	#18
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Lonnie, I don't know about "allowing" it, but it would certainly make it difficult for ATF to prove that it wasn't an original artillery Luger... [img]biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*