1917 DWM Artillery unit marks.

Lugers down under · 07-06-2002, 02:19 AM

1917 DWM Unit marked Artillery.

Jan.C.Still asked to see some photos of the 1917 DWM Unit marked Artillery Luger that I recently purchased at an auction here in New Zealand.

The gun is all matching numbers including the magazine and the stock board. It is 95% original blue allover with some slight holster wear in the usual places.The back grip strap is unit marked JR 448 9K and the holster is made by Max Reuser Stalluonen 1916 and is stamped BA XVII.
The stock board is Imperial stamped along with the stripping tool and the cleaning rod.
It came complete with the second pattern Snail Drum Mag which was captured with the gun.

Jan.C.Still advises that J.R.448.9.K signifies Infantry Regiment 448, 9 Kompagnie which was part of the 233 and 107 ID during WWI. He further says that the BA XVII on the holster signifies the 17th Army Corps, which two of the regiments in the 233ID are from. What this indicates is that, in a roundabout way, the holster is related to the Luger.

Klaus advises that the R.448, 449 and 450 were part of the 233.Inf.Division which was formed on Feb.17.1917. C.O. of 233.I.D. was Generalleutnant von Dewitz
.
The 233 ID fought in Flanders, Lorraine, Kemmel and the Somme during WWI.

Trooper John Morton captured the gun on the Somme in 1918.

His enlisted number was 9/308 and he served with the Otago Mounted Rifles (New Zealand infantry division). He enlisted 16 August 1914
Served in Egypt 1914,1915,1916
Served in the Balkans 1915, Gallipoli , embarking at Mudros for Gallipoli.
Served in Western Europe 1916,1917,1918 at Flanders, Somme, Etaples, Abule.
Discharged 6th June 1919.
John Morton came from Isla Bank in Southland, at the bottom of the South Island of New Zealand. His name is scribbled both on the holster and the stock board and I feel we can forgive him for that little bit of graffiti.

With appreciation of assistance from Jan.C.Still and Klaus.

Murray
New Zealand.

Lugers down under · 07-06-2002, 02:25 AM

Here is a view of the back strap unit marks.

Lugers down under · 07-06-2002, 02:31 AM

Here is a view of the gun with out it's accessories.

Edward Tinker · 07-06-2002, 02:52 AM

Murray, just wonderful, I love the pictures and the information that you have.

Ed

Marvin · 07-06-2002, 08:23 AM

Murray,

This is great inrformation and the photo is sensational! This is what collecting is all about to me; finding the rig and being able to obtain so much information about it's history.

This is a nice rig which I am sure you are proud of.

Marvin

BILL · 07-07-2002, 12:35 AM

Thanks for sharing. What an exceptional find. Just beautiful and rich with history. What more can you ask for?

Jan C Still · 07-10-2002, 01:11 PM

Murray
Thanks for your great photographs, you have captured everybodies interest with the documented history of this Luger. Collectors often say if only this Luger could talk. Unit marked Lugers do talk and this is an outstanding example.

The following from Imperial Lugers p xxv might interest all artillery Luger collectors:

"A directive dated August 11, 1917 ordered each infantry company on the Western Front to be armed with ten Long P.08's for attack purposes (Gortz, 1994). A similar directive ordered arming of the Sturmbattilone with Long P.08's with 6 extra magazines each (Schad 1993). This special arming for assult purposes would require most of the 1917 Long P.08 production."

Jan

Thor · 07-10-2002, 01:40 PM

WOW.....Murray.....what a treasure! I love that rig and story!

John Sabato · 07-10-2002, 02:37 PM

I am in ablsoulte AWE of your Artillery Luger and it's history Murray...

Nice Photos! Once again, thanks much for sharing.

M38 · 07-10-2002, 05:12 PM

Wow! I want to be you when I grow up.
It's a joy to see such a wonderful piece of history so well preserved.

07-06-2002, 02:19 AM	#1
Lugers down under User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Great Barrier Island, New Zealand Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	1917 DWM Artillery unit marks. 1917 DWM Unit marked Artillery. Jan.C.Still asked to see some photos of the 1917 DWM Unit marked Artillery Luger that I recently purchased at an auction here in New Zealand. The gun is all matching numbers including the magazine and the stock board. It is 95% original blue allover with some slight holster wear in the usual places.The back grip strap is unit marked JR 448 9K and the holster is made by Max Reuser Stalluonen 1916 and is stamped BA XVII. The stock board is Imperial stamped along with the stripping tool and the cleaning rod. It came complete with the second pattern Snail Drum Mag which was captured with the gun. Jan.C.Still advises that J.R.448.9.K signifies Infantry Regiment 448, 9 Kompagnie which was part of the 233 and 107 ID during WWI. He further says that the BA XVII on the holster signifies the 17th Army Corps, which two of the regiments in the 233ID are from. What this indicates is that, in a roundabout way, the holster is related to the Luger. Klaus advises that the R.448, 449 and 450 were part of the 233.Inf.Division which was formed on Feb.17.1917. C.O. of 233.I.D. was Generalleutnant von Dewitz . The 233 ID fought in Flanders, Lorraine, Kemmel and the Somme during WWI. Trooper John Morton captured the gun on the Somme in 1918. His enlisted number was 9/308 and he served with the Otago Mounted Rifles (New Zealand infantry division). He enlisted 16 August 1914 Served in Egypt 1914,1915,1916 Served in the Balkans 1915, Gallipoli , embarking at Mudros for Gallipoli. Served in Western Europe 1916,1917,1918 at Flanders, Somme, Etaples, Abule. Discharged 6th June 1919. John Morton came from Isla Bank in Southland, at the bottom of the South Island of New Zealand. His name is scribbled both on the holster and the stock board and I feel we can forgive him for that little bit of graffiti. With appreciation of assistance from Jan.C.Still and Klaus. Murray New Zealand. __________________ Lugers down under

07-06-2002, 02:25 AM	#2
Lugers down under User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Great Barrier Island, New Zealand Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Here is a view of the back strap unit marks. __________________ Lugers down under

07-06-2002, 02:31 AM	#3
Lugers down under User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Great Barrier Island, New Zealand Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Here is a view of the gun with out it's accessories. __________________ Lugers down under

07-06-2002, 02:52 AM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,930 Thanks: 2,030 Thanked 4,527 Times in 2,090 Posts	Murray, just wonderful, I love the pictures and the information that you have. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-07-2002, 12:35 AM	#6
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for sharing. What an exceptional find. Just beautiful and rich with history. What more can you ask for? __________________ *"Take me to your Luger!"*

07-06-2002, 08:23 AM	#5
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Murray, This is great inrformation and the photo is sensational! This is what collecting is all about to me; finding the rig and being able to obtain so much information about it's history. This is a nice rig which I am sure you are proud of. Marvin

07-10-2002, 01:11 PM	#7
Jan C Still User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Box 240188, Douglas, Alaska, 99824 Posts: 463 Thanks: 0 Thanked 52 Times in 32 Posts	Murray Thanks for your great photographs, you have captured everybodies interest with the documented history of this Luger. Collectors often say if only this Luger could talk. Unit marked Lugers do talk and this is an outstanding example. The following from Imperial Lugers p xxv might interest all artillery Luger collectors: "A directive dated August 11, 1917 ordered each infantry company on the Western Front to be armed with ten Long P.08's for attack purposes (Gortz, 1994). A similar directive ordered arming of the Sturmbattilone with Long P.08's with 6 extra magazines each (Schad 1993). This special arming for assult purposes would require most of the 1917 Long P.08 production." Jan

07-10-2002, 01:40 PM	#8
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	WOW.....Murray.....what a treasure! I love that rig and story! __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

07-10-2002, 02:37 PM	#9
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	I am in ablsoulte AWE of your Artillery Luger and it's history Murray... Nice Photos! Once again, thanks much for sharing. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-10-2002, 05:12 PM	#10
M38 User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Northern VA Posts: 37 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Wow! I want to be you when I grow up. It's a joy to see such a wonderful piece of history so well preserved.