1914/1920 Erfurt Unit Markings

[ToddL]

A friend of mine has asked for help in identifiying these unit marks on his luger. Looks like some or all of the markings are police but there may be an Imperial mark as well. Thanks for the help. Todd

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http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload...rkk_copy1b.jpg

[Don M]

These are very interesting police markings. It would help a lot if we knew whether this pistol has or had sear or mag safeties. Also, knowing the serial number would be helpful to me for my database of police markings.

S.Op.III.117. represents the Schutzpolizei of either Hindenburg, Beuthen or Ratibor in the Oppeln administrative district of the Prussian province of Oberschlesien (now in Poland).

S.Me.III.2.115. represents Hundertschaft (Company) 2 of the barracked Schutzpolizei, possibly at Wittenberg, in the Merseburg administrative district of the Prussian province of Sachsen.

Both markings are quite rare and both have been canceled, so it is difficult to know which came first. I suspect that the pistol was transferred from the Merseburg district to the Oppeln district but could be wrong. Knowing whether the Luger has or had a sear safety could shed some light on this. Also, a somewhat wider photo showing the positioning of the markings on the grip strap may help.

I really can't explain the uncanceled 29. The 2 seems to be in the same font as the 2 in the Merseburg marking.

[ToddL]

Thanks Don for the very informative response. I have contacted my friend with the information you provided and I will get the serial number and a picture of the left side to see if the luger has a sear safety or not. I will post the update once I receive the information. Thanks again,Todd

[Don M]

Todd,

These are very informative markings and I would like to include a photo of the grip strap in the book I'm writing about German police markings. Please ask him for permission to include it and, if he agrees, let me know his name as he would like to have it appear in the credits. If he does not want to post it on the forum, you or he may email me at the address below.

[Jack Lawman]

Originally posted by Don M
Both markings are quite rare and both have been canceled, so it is difficult to know which came first. I suspect that the pistol was transferred from the Merseburg district to the Oppeln district but could be wrong.

Judging from the markings themselves, it looks like the S.Op.III.117. marking went through two refinishes while the S.Me.III.2.115. looks like it went only through one.

Does the placement of the marks offer any insight, the Oppeln mark being very near the bottom of the front gripstrap?

Jack

[Don M]

Jack, your observation about the Oppeln marking is a very good one and would suggest that it is the older one. However, I still feel the pistol started in Merseburg and was transferred to Oppeln. Todd has sent me additional photos showing the gun has a sear safety and a disabled mag safety. This indicates the pistol belonged to the precinct police (Revierpolizei) in the mid-30s and not the barracked Schupo (Bereitschaftspolizei) who were transferred to the Army in the mid-30s. The Merseburg marking is a Bereitschaftspolizei marking while the Oppeln marking could be either. Other evidence suggest that the Schupo in the Merseburg district were downsized during the 1920s while the Oppeln Schupo contingent was exapanded.

The positioning of the markings supports this sequence. Usually, the first marking was stamped near the middle of the of the grip strap. Unless it was ground off, subsequent markings had to be fit into the available space.

Still, I would put the probability that this is correct at only about 60%.

[Jack Lawman]

Originally posted by Don M
Still, I would put the probability that this is correct at only about 60%.

That's still a better bet than "Big Brown" to win @ 1-4!

Maybe the Oppeln gripstrap marking dude had arthritis ?

Stay cool, it's really hot here.

Jack