new to lugers, with a 1920 I think - Page 2

kritter · 02-02-2011, 05:35 PM

heres the pic of the sideplate..

And like it was stated, it's my first, and yes it's a miss-match of parts, but.. it's also a shooter.. which was what I was looking for.

However it's the misteek of the Luger that brough me here.. I feel bad that theres arguing over this.. this was not my intention.

I'm just here to learn... and eventually work my way towards a collector luger.. but in the mean time,I'm going to shoot this little one as much as I can, and try to get a few more "shooters" .. 9MM is next on the list..
and maybe an artillery in 9 or .30 and I'd love to find a carbine also in .30 ,

But...for me, it's just a way for me to go back in time to a time when people took pride in their work.

thank-you all once again...

Vlim · 02-02-2011, 06:38 PM

Quote:

20 years ago, VOPO"S were not considered real Lugers(Meaning original) for they were mismatched, now they are identified as real? Because the French assembled them and they were actually fitted.

VoPo's have nothing to do with the French. It is true, however, that Mauser built pistols under French control and we have very strong evidence that P08's were assembled in French arsenals, using Mauser parts. The VoPo pistols were put back into military and police service by the GDR / DDR in the 1950s and as such are now a recognized collector variation, as are those pistols assembled under French control.

You cannot compare them to an obviously mismatched and messed with commercial luger, how pretty it is otherwise.

dharger · 02-02-2011, 08:01 PM

Kritter,
If you are satisfied with your purchase nothing else matters, [B]NOT EVEN IF A SINGLE NUMBER ON THE GUN MATCHES[B]. You bought it as a shooter, not a collectors item. As long as the headspace is ok it doesn't matter if the numbers match or not.

If you decide to collect Lugers as a serious hobby, I would read all the material I could on them. The works of Jan C. Still are a must as are many other fine works. Try to fill your library and head before your safe. It can save you many costly mistakes in the end.

It seems that there is something new being discovered about these fine old relics of history every year. It's a hobby that can definately fuel a persons quest for knowledge

alanint · 02-02-2011, 09:39 PM

I usually don't weigh in on this type of exchange, but what was origianlly said was exactly this: (cut and pasted, not transcribed)

"20 years ago, VOPO"S were not considered real Lugers(Meaning original) for they were mismatched, now they are identified as real? Because the French assembled them and they were actually fitted. Is this true. Why can't we look at 20 commercials as such, being they were not original even as they left the factory."

As someone who majored in English in college, I read this exactly as Vlim has. The statement, as structured, implies that VoPo Lugers were assembled and fitted by the French, which is not the case. Vlim clarified that the French did assemble Lugers in conjunction with Mauser. They just had nothing to do with Vopo reworks.

And that's my opinion...

alanint · 02-02-2011, 10:16 PM

This is not about whether the French MADE Lugers or not. You are correct in that your statement makes clear that the French assembled and fitted Lugers, nowhere is it implied that they manufactured Lugers.

The confusion lies in that the way you structured your statement, it asserts that the French assembled and fitted, (not manufactured) Lugers for the VoPo, which is not the case.

I hope this makes everything clear.

John Sabato · 02-02-2011, 10:51 PM

FORMER member residentevil has been banned...

alanint · 02-02-2011, 11:11 PM

Thank you! (although I missed reading the text of his last reply, this was getting tedious...!)

MFC · 02-02-2011, 11:39 PM

Gees... I hope I didn't make him mad. I didn't get to see his response before it was deleted.

wlyon · 02-03-2011, 12:10 AM

John
Thanks. A job well done. Bill

alanint · 02-03-2011, 08:34 AM

My biggest concern was developing a conditioned negative feeling for Veronica Lake!

I am always mystified by people who insist on putting so much energy into such unworthy endeavours...

Vlim · 02-03-2011, 09:26 AM

Residentevil, Sabbathmusic, etc... is a person who chooses not to play by the forum rules. That is his choice and his alone. Behaviour like his will not be tolerated on this forum and we expect that he will be back in one form or another because he uses random ip-addresses.

If he shows up again, under another name and 'living' in another country, let us know and we will ban him again.

dharger · 02-03-2011, 10:45 AM

Call me old fashioned, stuck in the past, or whathave you. To me, the VoPo will never be anything more than a shooter. JMHO

When I come to a site such as lugerforum.com i do so for information. I always keep two things in my mind.

1. Do I know more about this subject than some of these members?
2. Do some of these members know more than me?

The answer to both questions is of course. I also value their opinions equally. When we disagree we must keep it civil when on a public forum. I know that this one didn't get out of hand, thanks to the moderators and the users themselves but, I have seen sites where it has.

In my opinion Residentevil tried to develop a hypothosis around his mismatched 1920 commercial Luger to justify it. He wants to make it something its not, a collectors gun, instead of the shooter it is In one of his posts he stated that no 1920 commercials existed with matching numbers, I have one and I bet a lot of you guys do to.

I also have no doubt that he will show up on another site and even try, to get back on here with a new IP address and avatar. I'm not a big Veronica Lake fan however, now Marylin Monroe...

kritter · 02-03-2011, 03:04 PM

Now I feel bad, all this discusion over my luger, and now someone's banned.. this Is not what I was looking for. and my apologies to the fourm and all members..

I've collected Smith & Wessons and Winchesters for years, Now lugers are something I'd like to start learning about. things like "commercials" and "VoPo" which I've never heard of before..

I guess what I'm trying to say is, this is all a learning expearnce for me, and this was my first luger. not matching, not orgional, But.. thats ok.. It's a start.

Something I can take out, shoot , play with, and just in general have fun with.. which is what I wanted..

Hopefully, with the more time I spend here, the more I will learn ( and there is a lot to learn ) and later move up to a matching, correct luger for collecting..

But once again, I do thank all of you for the information I've gained so far, and for the knowlage I'll gain in the future..

John Sabato · 02-03-2011, 03:09 PM

Don't conern yourself Kritter, you did nothing wrong... and your posting had nothing to do with the banning "residentevil" You were just the victim here.

... that individual surfaces every few weeks with a new registration and a false identity and gets banned for being a disruption and disperser of bad information. In other words, a Troll.

Enjoy your Luger... and may you have many many more...

02-02-2011, 09:39 PM	#24
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	I usually don't weigh in on this type of exchange, but what was origianlly said was exactly this: (cut and pasted, not transcribed) "20 years ago, VOPO"S were not considered real Lugers(Meaning original) for they were mismatched, now they are identified as real? Because the French assembled them and they were actually fitted. Is this true. Why can't we look at 20 commercials as such, being they were not original even as they left the factory." As someone who majored in English in college, I read this exactly as Vlim has. The statement, as structured, implies that VoPo Lugers were assembled and fitted by the French, which is not the case. Vlim clarified that the French did assemble Lugers in conjunction with Mauser. They just had nothing to do with Vopo reworks. And that's my opinion... Last edited by alanint; 02-03-2011 at 08:29 AM.

02-02-2011, 11:39 PM	#28
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Gees... I hope I didn't make him mad. I didn't get to see his response before it was deleted. __________________ Mike C.

02-03-2011, 12:10 AM	#29
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,614 Thanks: 3,140 Thanked 2,519 Times in 939 Posts	John Thanks. A job well done. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

02-03-2011, 03:04 PM	#33
kritter User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: NE OHIO Posts: 19 Thanks: 2 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Now I feel bad, all this discusion over my luger, and now someone's banned.. this Is not what I was looking for. and my apologies to the fourm and all members.. I've collected Smith & Wessons and Winchesters for years, Now lugers are something I'd like to start learning about. things like "commercials" and "VoPo" which I've never heard of before.. I guess what I'm trying to say is, this is all a learning expearnce for me, and this was my first luger. not matching, not orgional, But.. thats ok.. It's a start. Something I can take out, shoot , play with, and just in general have fun with.. which is what I wanted.. Hopefully, with the more time I spend here, the more I will learn ( and there is a lot to learn ) and later move up to a matching, correct luger for collecting.. But once again, I do thank all of you for the information I've gained so far, and for the knowlage I'll gain in the future.. Last edited by kritter; 02-03-2011 at 03:06 PM. Reason: bad spelling

02-03-2011, 03:09 PM	#34
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Don't conern yourself Kritter, you did nothing wrong... and your posting had nothing to do with the banning "residentevil" You were just the victim here. ... that individual surfaces every few weeks with a new registration and a false identity and gets banned for being a disruption and disperser of bad information. In other words, a Troll. Enjoy your Luger... and may you have many many more... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

02-02-2011, 05:35 PM	#21
kritter User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: NE OHIO Posts: 19 Thanks: 2 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	heres the pic of the sideplate.. And like it was stated, it's my first, and yes it's a miss-match of parts, but.. it's also a shooter.. which was what I was looking for. However it's the misteek of the Luger that brough me here.. I feel bad that theres arguing over this.. this was not my intention. I'm just here to learn... and eventually work my way towards a collector luger.. but in the mean time,I'm going to shoot this little one as much as I can, and try to get a few more "shooters" .. 9MM is next on the list.. and maybe an artillery in 9 or .30 and I'd love to find a carbine also in .30 , But...for me, it's just a way for me to go back in time to a time when people took pride in their work. thank-you all once again...

02-02-2011, 08:01 PM	#23
dharger User Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 17 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Kritter, If you are satisfied with your purchase nothing else matters, [B]NOT EVEN IF A SINGLE NUMBER ON THE GUN MATCHES[B]. You bought it as a shooter, not a collectors item. As long as the headspace is ok it doesn't matter if the numbers match or not. If you decide to collect Lugers as a serious hobby, I would read all the material I could on them. The works of Jan C. Still are a must as are many other fine works. Try to fill your library and head before your safe. It can save you many costly mistakes in the end. It seems that there is something new being discovered about these fine old relics of history every year. It's a hobby that can definately fuel a persons quest for knowledge

02-02-2011, 10:16 PM	#25
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	This is not about whether the French MADE Lugers or not. You are correct in that your statement makes clear that the French assembled and fitted Lugers, nowhere is it implied that they manufactured Lugers. The confusion lies in that the way you structured your statement, it asserts that the French assembled and fitted, (not manufactured) Lugers for the VoPo, which is not the case. I hope this makes everything clear.

02-02-2011, 10:51 PM	#26
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	FORMER member residentevil has been banned...

02-02-2011, 11:11 PM	#27
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Thank you! (although I missed reading the text of his last reply, this was getting tedious...!)

02-03-2011, 08:34 AM	#30
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	My biggest concern was developing a conditioned negative feeling for Veronica Lake! I am always mystified by people who insist on putting so much energy into such unworthy endeavours...

02-03-2011, 09:26 AM	#31
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,032 Thanks: 1,018 Thanked 3,873 Times in 1,184 Posts	Residentevil, Sabbathmusic, etc... is a person who chooses not to play by the forum rules. That is his choice and his alone. Behaviour like his will not be tolerated on this forum and we expect that he will be back in one form or another because he uses random ip-addresses. If he shows up again, under another name and 'living' in another country, let us know and we will ban him again.

02-03-2011, 10:45 AM	#32
dharger User Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 17 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Call me old fashioned, stuck in the past, or whathave you. To me, the VoPo will never be anything more than a shooter. JMHO When I come to a site such as lugerforum.com i do so for information. I always keep two things in my mind. 1. Do I know more about this subject than some of these members? 2. Do some of these members know more than me? The answer to both questions is of course. I also value their opinions equally. When we disagree we must keep it civil when on a public forum. I know that this one didn't get out of hand, thanks to the moderators and the users themselves but, I have seen sites where it has. In my opinion Residentevil tried to develop a hypothosis around his mismatched 1920 commercial Luger to justify it. He wants to make it something its not, a collectors gun, instead of the shooter it is In one of his posts he stated that no 1920 commercials existed with matching numbers, I have one and I bet a lot of you guys do to. I also have no doubt that he will show up on another site and even try, to get back on here with a new IP address and avatar. I'm not a big Veronica Lake fan however, now Marylin Monroe...