new to lugers, with a 1920 I think

kritter · 01-31-2011, 03:59 PM

well I finally took the plunge, got my first luger and I'm thinking it might be a rather expensive mistake..I WANT MORE

anyhow this one was listed as a 1920 DWM commercial, however, theres no "germany / made in germany" stamping
it does have a crown over N stamping on the underside of the barrel and another one above the takedown leaver..
the finish looks like the orgional rust blue ( looks much better in person than the pic's show)
But here it is, in it's glory

Dan44 · 01-31-2011, 05:38 PM

Yeah, they do add up. Nice purchase.

pitsword · 01-31-2011, 06:07 PM

Very nice. Actually very splendid. It would be great if you would post all of your pics here on the forum. Best to you,
pitsword

Haaa, I am sharpshooting. Ed Tinker expalined it to me once and I still can't figure it out. However, someone of these fine gentlemen can/will help you do it. These folks are the very best!

FNorm · 01-31-2011, 06:32 PM

Welcome to the Forum, and the ...err.. addiction. I can't make out the suffix on the front of the frame, under the number. That would tell us more about it.

Fn

kritter · 01-31-2011, 06:38 PM

I could do more pictures but.... what a bandwith killer that would be, so thats why I did the "clicky -links"

the suffix on the front of the frame, under the number.

thats the weird part the front of the frame is blank..... nothing nada.. only markings on it other than the serial # is the crown over N..

Bongos · 01-31-2011, 06:56 PM

nice score

residentevil · 01-31-2011, 09:45 PM

Deleted by Moderator

kritter · 01-31-2011, 10:54 PM

I guess I did great I'm under the 700 mark by a hundred..

Oh ,and the extractor does say Geladen

but I'm still trying to find out more about it,, I was told it was a "parts" gun rebuilt by DWM sometime back in the 20's and that it was refinished by them back then, as a way to explain why nothings marked? (no matching numbers ,actually no numbers other than the two places where the photos show)
but don't understand the lack of import stamp.

as for the .30 cal.. whats not to love, shoots soft, seems accurate ( put 50 rounds through it as soon as I got it home and hit everything I aimed at ) just a little costly, but reloading will help with that..

I'd just like to nail down a time frame or a little more information.....

and sorry about the long-winded post's but as you can tell I'm excited about this one..

MFC · 02-01-2011, 12:14 AM

Hi Jeff,
The front of the frame was shaved back to remove the S# and possibly a 'Germany' stamp. You can still make out the remnants of the suffix on the curved surface. The last two digits of the S# are stamped on the bottom edge of the takedown lever (pictured) and should also be on the bottom edge of the sideplate (can't make it out in the pictures). If it is not numbered it is not original. The barrel is not original... no witness mark or S#. The S# added to the back of frame is most unusual. I could be wrong, but I don't think DWM made these changes to this Luger. It looks like a fine shooter in excellent condition.

John Sabato · 02-01-2011, 08:37 AM

The reason we ask you to post your photos here is that the external storage websites have a habit of either going out of business, or changing their file structure when the grow... that causes the links to go dead. Please post your photos here.

Nice Luger... Welcome to the Lugerforum.

kritter · 02-01-2011, 08:26 PM

the striker ( fireing pin?) has no grooves in it , and the mag's are "el cheepo" aftermarket.
and it does have a bolt hold open.

however, now that I've learned how to take this little guy apart,,( whew ) I did find more #'S there is a #93 on the back of the side plate a # 28 on the underside of the takedown leaver, and a # 55 stamped on the back of the bolt face.

"whoo-hoo" there is markings.. mismatched , but it did gobble up 50 rounds of Fiocchi ammo and it was sending them where I wanted them too..and with NO jam's or stovepipes...

All in all this is going to be a learning expearance for me, and after looking through the fourm and the wealth of infromation here. all I can say is thank-you to everyone .

residentevil · 02-01-2011, 11:53 PM

Deleted by Moderator

MFC · 02-02-2011, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by residentevil

the fact those parts are mismatched DOES not mean it was not assembled this way originally from the factory. ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN WITH THESE GUNS, anything! iF THERE ARE NO OTHER SERIAL ON IT, NO PROOFS, it can be original regardless.

Hi Henry,
This is not what I have learned.
Many tens of thousands, Alphabet DWM's (formerly 1920 commercials) were exported to the US. Most all of these are serial numbered the same way on the external parts, with matching numbers on the same parts. The commercial series began in 1900 and continued until 1929 when Mauser took over production of Lugers. The serial numbers are continuos, even though the system was changed to the military style of numbering by adding an alphabet. Whether the parts were military surplus or new manufacture, they would have been finished and numbered to match. I don't beleive DWM would intentionally let one out of there door with mismatched and unnumbered parts. WWI military reworked Lugers sold to the commercial market are well documented. IMHO this is not one.

residentevil · 02-02-2011, 10:40 AM

Deleted by Moderator

residentevil · 02-02-2011, 10:46 AM

Deleted by Moderator

Vlim · 02-02-2011, 11:51 AM

The blueing on the side plate actually usually fades quicker than on the rest of the gun. So comparing the state of the blueing is not the best way to determine whether a part left the factory together with the gun, or not.

Basically, in some 90 years many things can happen to a gun and trust me that most of that has nothing to do with the original manufacturer. The 'Germany' or 'Made In German' marking was a requirement, dictated by US law, for import guns.

That said, there are many guns which were deliberately anonymized by removing serial numbers and property markings for many reasons. We see them pop up now and again in Belgium and France, where people from the resistance removed serial numbers (or even hacksawed 2 inches off of navy luger barrels for easier concealment).

On the other hand it may just be a gun smiths attempt to create a somewhat matching pistol from a bunch of parts. It's a nice looking gun that would make a pretty shooter.

John Sabato · 02-02-2011, 01:06 PM

Quote:

I hope my opinion does not start a war on this forum. I do know from inside sources that this is a place you can rarely express an opinion unless it fits in with the status quo.

I request that you explain this groundless remark. This is simply not true. There is no STATUS QUO here. We don't have wars on this forum, no matter what you have experienced on other forums.

Anyone who has been here any length of time will tell you that all opinions are welcome as long as they are contributed in a respectful manner in a spirit of sharing information and have a basis which can be substantiated, or when the basis cannot be substantiated, it must be stated that it is speculation or theory...

Theories are welcome too... but don't state theories as fact, if they can't be substantiated.

All Luger enthusiasts are welcome here, provided they can comply with a few simple rules.

There are rules to maintain the decorum on this website. It makes it a safe place to visit for all ages, and a place where the posted information can be trusted to be truthful or factual.

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This is an international organization of almost 9000 members that was founded to support Luger enthusiasts world-side and we thrive on the truth, respect, and consideration for others... not speculation or hearsay. If you have heard something from "inside sources" name them... more than likely it was from someone kicked out of here for not following the rules.

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residentevil · 02-02-2011, 02:01 PM

Deleted by Moderator

dharger · 02-02-2011, 04:52 PM

A couple of months ago I also bought a 1920 alpha commercial Luger. A beautiful little gun with a pristine bore after I gave everything a thourough cleaning. I completely disassembled the gun in the shop to check all the numbers which all matched excepet for one thing, the side plate had no number on it. Its a gun that has never been refinished that I can tell. It made me ponder the question, "Did this gun leave the factory this way?" I posted the question on a few different sites and, of course, received a few different answers.

I already thought I knew the answer I just wanted another opinion. To me it is a mismatched gun. Yet to other people on some of the other sites it was just a factory mistake. Either way I will enjoy this gun just as much and shoot it as it was intended for. However if a time comes to sell it I will sell it as a shooter Luger and not as a collectors Item, which to some people it still is, just not to me.

residentevil · 02-02-2011, 05:10 PM

Deleted by Moderator

01-31-2011, 03:59 PM	#1
kritter User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: NE OHIO Posts: 19 Thanks: 2 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	new to lugers, with a 1920 I think well I finally took the plunge, got my first luger and I'm thinking it might be a rather expensive mistake..I WANT MORE anyhow this one was listed as a 1920 DWM commercial, however, theres no "germany / made in germany" stamping it does have a crown over N stamping on the underside of the barrel and another one above the takedown leaver.. the finish looks like the orgional rust blue ( looks much better in person than the pic's show) But here it is, in it's glory and the links to more pics, http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2.../P1010001b.jpg http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2.../P1010002a.jpg http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2.../P1010003b.jpg http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2.../P1010004a.jpg http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2.../P1010007b.jpg http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2.../P1010010b.jpg http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2.../P1010011b.jpg http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2.../P1010012a.jpg http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2.../P1010013a.jpg Oh I forgot it's a .30 cal and any information anyone has would be helpfull.. also I realize it's just a shooter grade but still it's my first..and I have a feeling theres going to be more to follow.. thanks..

01-31-2011, 10:54 PM	#8
kritter User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: NE OHIO Posts: 19 Thanks: 2 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I guess I did great I'm under the 700 mark by a hundred.. Oh ,and the extractor does say Geladen but I'm still trying to find out more about it,, I was told it was a "parts" gun rebuilt by DWM sometime back in the 20's and that it was refinished by them back then, as a way to explain why nothings marked? (no matching numbers ,actually no numbers other than the two places where the photos show) but don't understand the lack of import stamp. as for the .30 cal.. whats not to love, shoots soft, seems accurate ( put 50 rounds through it as soon as I got it home and hit everything I aimed at ) just a little costly, but reloading will help with that.. I'd just like to nail down a time frame or a little more information..... and sorry about the long-winded post's but as you can tell I'm excited about this one.. Last edited by kritter; 01-31-2011 at 10:57 PM. Reason: public school spelling

02-01-2011, 08:37 AM	#10
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	The reason we ask you to post your photos here is that the external storage websites have a habit of either going out of business, or changing their file structure when the grow... that causes the links to go dead. Please post your photos here. Nice Luger... Welcome to the Lugerforum. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

02-02-2011, 10:40 AM	#14
residentevil Banned Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: England Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Deleted by Moderator Last edited by residentevil; 02-02-2011 at 02:16 PM.

02-02-2011, 10:46 AM	#15
residentevil Banned Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: England Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Deleted by Moderator Attached Thumbnails

01-31-2011, 05:38 PM	#2
Dan44 User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 78 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Yeah, they do add up. Nice purchase.

01-31-2011, 06:07 PM	#3
pitsword User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Southern Maine Posts: 454 Thanks: 3,884 Thanked 101 Times in 81 Posts	Very nice. Actually very splendid. It would be great if you would post all of your pics here on the forum. Best to you, pitsword Haaa, I am sharpshooting. Ed Tinker expalined it to me once and I still can't figure it out. However, someone of these fine gentlemen can/will help you do it. These folks are the very best!

01-31-2011, 06:32 PM	#4
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Welcome to the Forum, and the ...err.. addiction. I can't make out the suffix on the front of the frame, under the number. That would tell us more about it. Fn

01-31-2011, 06:38 PM	#5
kritter User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: NE OHIO Posts: 19 Thanks: 2 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I could do more pictures but.... what a bandwith killer that would be, so thats why I did the "clicky -links" the suffix on the front of the frame, under the number. thats the weird part the front of the frame is blank..... nothing nada.. only markings on it other than the serial # is the crown over N..

01-31-2011, 06:56 PM	#6
Bongos User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Orange County,CA Posts: 27 Thanks: 7 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	nice score

01-31-2011, 09:45 PM	#7
residentevil Banned Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: England Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Deleted by Moderator

02-01-2011, 12:14 AM	#9
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Hi Jeff, The front of the frame was shaved back to remove the S# and possibly a 'Germany' stamp. You can still make out the remnants of the suffix on the curved surface. The last two digits of the S# are stamped on the bottom edge of the takedown lever (pictured) and should also be on the bottom edge of the sideplate (can't make it out in the pictures). If it is not numbered it is not original. The barrel is not original... no witness mark or S#. The S# added to the back of frame is most unusual. I could be wrong, but I don't think DWM made these changes to this Luger. It looks like a fine shooter in excellent condition. __________________ Mike C.

02-01-2011, 08:26 PM	#11
kritter User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: NE OHIO Posts: 19 Thanks: 2 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	the striker ( fireing pin?) has no grooves in it , and the mag's are "el cheepo" aftermarket. and it does have a bolt hold open. however, now that I've learned how to take this little guy apart,,( whew ) I did find more #'S there is a #93 on the back of the side plate a # 28 on the underside of the takedown leaver, and a # 55 stamped on the back of the bolt face. "whoo-hoo" there is markings.. mismatched , but it did gobble up 50 rounds of Fiocchi ammo and it was sending them where I wanted them too..and with NO jam's or stovepipes... All in all this is going to be a learning expearance for me, and after looking through the fourm and the wealth of infromation here. all I can say is thank-you to everyone .

02-01-2011, 11:53 PM	#12
residentevil Banned Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: England Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Deleted by Moderator

02-02-2011, 11:51 AM	#16
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,032 Thanks: 1,018 Thanked 3,873 Times in 1,184 Posts	The blueing on the side plate actually usually fades quicker than on the rest of the gun. So comparing the state of the blueing is not the best way to determine whether a part left the factory together with the gun, or not. Basically, in some 90 years many things can happen to a gun and trust me that most of that has nothing to do with the original manufacturer. The 'Germany' or 'Made In German' marking was a requirement, dictated by US law, for import guns. That said, there are many guns which were deliberately anonymized by removing serial numbers and property markings for many reasons. We see them pop up now and again in Belgium and France, where people from the resistance removed serial numbers (or even hacksawed 2 inches off of navy luger barrels for easier concealment). On the other hand it may just be a gun smiths attempt to create a somewhat matching pistol from a bunch of parts. It's a nice looking gun that would make a pretty shooter.

02-02-2011, 02:01 PM	#18
residentevil Banned Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: England Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Deleted by Moderator

02-02-2011, 04:52 PM	#19
dharger User Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 17 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	A couple of months ago I also bought a 1920 alpha commercial Luger. A beautiful little gun with a pristine bore after I gave everything a thourough cleaning. I completely disassembled the gun in the shop to check all the numbers which all matched excepet for one thing, the side plate had no number on it. Its a gun that has never been refinished that I can tell. It made me ponder the question, "Did this gun leave the factory this way?" I posted the question on a few different sites and, of course, received a few different answers. I already thought I knew the answer I just wanted another opinion. To me it is a mismatched gun. Yet to other people on some of the other sites it was just a factory mistake. Either way I will enjoy this gun just as much and shoot it as it was intended for. However if a time comes to sell it I will sell it as a shooter Luger and not as a collectors Item, which to some people it still is, just not to me.

02-02-2011, 05:10 PM	#20
residentevil Banned Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: England Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Deleted by Moderator