DWM Commercial 1911-1913 (?)

Pistol · 08-28-2009, 10:38 PM

Starting with the grips. One is marked with a #5 and the other a #3. The gun serial ends in #51. And if you look at the close-up it almost loos like #51 on grip, but I think this #1 is actually just the wood grain.

Keep this in mind when reviewing the next photos, where #3 and # 5 are stamped on the frame -where the reciever and barrel mate with the frame.

Pistol · 08-28-2009, 10:43 PM

Here is what I was talking about: What do the #3 and #5 mean? What about the P?

Pistol · 08-28-2009, 10:50 PM

Look at the one without the grips. That is as far open as the toggle will stay. I con't think it has a hold open.......and if it does it is not working properly.

Pistol · 08-28-2009, 10:59 PM

Anyone know what these mean?

Photo 1: P RN
Photo 2: E on left and the P RN on the Right
Photo 3: N stamped over an R?
Photo 4: close-up of photo 3
Photo 5: inside frame looks like H

Ron Wood · 08-28-2009, 11:00 PM

The numbers and the "P" in the frame well are just inspector's marks. Can't tell if it has a hold open or not, would have to see a photo of the top of the frame without the receiver. If it has a hold open, the toggle will not stay back unless there is an empty magazine in the gun. Being an '08 commercial, chances are pretty good that it doesn't have a hold open. Pretty nice looking gun.

I posted my reply before you added the other photos. All of those other marks are also just inspector marks and there is no key to who or what they represent.

Pistol · 08-28-2009, 11:14 PM

you can see the halos on the serial number. On the receiver underside there are three letters above the raised portion with#51. Looks like C Z and either F or faint P; on the left of the 51 a greek lower case a (?); and below another Z (?)

Anyone know what these mean?

Pistol · 08-28-2009, 11:23 PM

up close of greek letter (?) and more photos and Lazy c/n

Pistol · 08-28-2009, 11:34 PM

what is the 0 near the trigger mean; A P 1 near the #51 in the fourth photo of the toggle underside

Inside the side place appers to be the #3 similar to that on the grip and inside the frame recess where the receiver fits on top.

Pistol · 08-28-2009, 11:41 PM

Check out the cool mark on the front site. What is it?

Pistol · 08-28-2009, 11:56 PM

No serial # on first mag

Ron Wood · 08-29-2009, 12:44 AM

On inside letter markings, same answer as before. They are inspector markings. It just means that some inspector (unknown) evaluated some aspect of construction and placed his stamp to indicate that he had looked at it and it was satisfactory.

Good photos, and it is still a nice looking gun.

How about a shot of the top of the frame to see if it has a hold open?

Edward Tinker · 08-29-2009, 09:44 AM

very nice photos. I always call them "makers" marks, i.e. like Ron said, parts was made, and checked by someone (could be an inspector, could be a foreman or lead worker in that area).

somethings we'll just never know for sure

Also, although there "could" ber rhyme or reason for some markings i.e. the #3 or #5, mostly likely not if they aren't the last two of the serial number....

Pistol · 08-29-2009, 10:03 AM

Also, although there "could" ber rhyme or reason for some markings i.e. the #3 or #5, mostly likely not if they aren't the last two of the serial number....

Yeah - I thought it was cool how #3 and #5 are on the frame where the receiver fits and also appear to be on grips.

Are the grips walnut? They seem a littler light in color, but I saw somewhere on a post that European Walnut can be lighter than the American species.

Edward Tinker · 08-29-2009, 10:58 AM

sometimes they are beech

squint · 08-30-2009, 03:34 AM

Uh, I'm a Luger newby too but don't you have to have a magazine in the pistol to lock the toggle back?

klaus 3338 · 08-30-2009, 06:42 AM

The letters are workerstamps. The reason for stamping such letters was that the DWM in this case wont to know who of the workers was working on the part of the gun. If there would have been some more problems with the (Leerenhaltigkeit in German) same parts on several Lugers they could find out, who of the workers made the problems.
I would be able to give more informations about it but because of my poor English I´m missing the right words. But I hope you will know what I mean.
Regards Klaus

sheepherder · 08-30-2009, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by klaus 3338

I would be able to give more informations about it but because of my poor English I´m missing the right words. But I hope you will know what I mean.

Klaus - Your English is excellent; your meaning is clear. If a problem area on a number of pistols was found to be caused by a single worker, what would be done with the affected parts???

FNorm · 08-30-2009, 07:52 AM

You did just fine, Klaus. Better than most of us would do in German.

FN

wlyon · 08-30-2009, 10:02 AM

Klaus
If I had your luger knowledge I wouldn't care if I was speaking in an alien tongue. You do great. Bill

sheepherder · 08-30-2009, 11:10 AM

I think this is the first 5-digit commercial serial w/o letter that I've seen...

Is that odd??? (The serial, I mean...not my lack of seeing)...

08-28-2009, 10:43 PM	#2
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: TN Posts: 421 Thanks: 430 Thanked 214 Times in 95 Posts	Here is what I was talking about: What do the #3 and #5 mean? What about the P? Attached Images

08-28-2009, 10:59 PM	#4
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: TN Posts: 421 Thanks: 430 Thanked 214 Times in 95 Posts	Frame Stamps Anyone know what these mean? Photo 1: P RN Photo 2: E on left and the P RN on the Right Photo 3: N stamped over an R? Photo 4: close-up of photo 3 Photo 5: inside frame looks like H Attached Images

08-28-2009, 11:14 PM	#6
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: TN Posts: 421 Thanks: 430 Thanked 214 Times in 95 Posts	Barrel and Receiver underside you can see the halos on the serial number. On the receiver underside there are three letters above the raised portion with#51. Looks like C Z and either F or faint P; on the left of the 51 a greek lower case a (?); and below another Z (?) Anyone know what these mean? Attached Images

08-28-2009, 11:23 PM	#7
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: TN Posts: 421 Thanks: 430 Thanked 214 Times in 95 Posts	up close of greek letter (?) and more photos and Lazy c/n Attached Images

08-28-2009, 11:34 PM	#8
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: TN Posts: 421 Thanks: 430 Thanked 214 Times in 95 Posts	what is the 0 near the trigger mean; A P 1 near the #51 in the fourth photo of the toggle underside Inside the side place appers to be the #3 similar to that on the grip and inside the frame recess where the receiver fits on top. Attached Images

08-28-2009, 10:38 PM	#1
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: TN Posts: 421 Thanks: 430 Thanked 214 Times in 95 Posts	DWM Commercial 1911-1913 (?) Starting with the grips. One is marked with a #5 and the other a #3. The gun serial ends in #51. And if you look at the close-up it almost loos like #51 on grip, but I think this #1 is actually just the wood grain. Keep this in mind when reviewing the next photos, where #3 and # 5 are stamped on the frame -where the reciever and barrel mate with the frame. Attached Images Last edited by Pistol; 12-24-2009 at 09:54 AM.

08-28-2009, 10:50 PM	#3
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: TN Posts: 421 Thanks: 430 Thanked 214 Times in 95 Posts	photo of gun Look at the one without the grips. That is as far open as the toggle will stay. I con't think it has a hold open.......and if it does it is not working properly. Attached Images

08-28-2009, 11:00 PM	#5
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	The numbers and the "P" in the frame well are just inspector's marks. Can't tell if it has a hold open or not, would have to see a photo of the top of the frame without the receiver. If it has a hold open, the toggle will not stay back unless there is an empty magazine in the gun. Being an '08 commercial, chances are pretty good that it doesn't have a hold open. Pretty nice looking gun. I posted my reply before you added the other photos. All of those other marks are also just inspector marks and there is no key to who or what they represent. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

08-28-2009, 11:41 PM	#9
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: TN Posts: 421 Thanks: 430 Thanked 214 Times in 95 Posts	Extractor and Front Site Check out the cool mark on the front site. What is it? Attached Images

08-28-2009, 11:56 PM	#10
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: TN Posts: 421 Thanks: 430 Thanked 214 Times in 95 Posts	No serial # on first mag Attached Images

08-29-2009, 12:44 AM	#11
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	On inside letter markings, same answer as before. They are inspector markings. It just means that some inspector (unknown) evaluated some aspect of construction and placed his stamp to indicate that he had looked at it and it was satisfactory. Good photos, and it is still a nice looking gun. How about a shot of the top of the frame to see if it has a hold open? __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

08-29-2009, 09:44 AM	#12
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	very nice photos. I always call them "makers" marks, i.e. like Ron said, parts was made, and checked by someone (could be an inspector, could be a foreman or lead worker in that area). somethings we'll just never know for sure Also, although there "could" ber rhyme or reason for some markings i.e. the #3 or #5, mostly likely not if they aren't the last two of the serial number.... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-29-2009, 10:03 AM	#13
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: TN Posts: 421 Thanks: 430 Thanked 214 Times in 95 Posts	Also, although there "could" ber rhyme or reason for some markings i.e. the #3 or #5, mostly likely not if they aren't the last two of the serial number.... Yeah - I thought it was cool how #3 and #5 are on the frame where the receiver fits and also appear to be on grips. Are the grips walnut? They seem a littler light in color, but I saw somewhere on a post that European Walnut can be lighter than the American species.

08-29-2009, 10:58 AM	#14
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	sometimes they are beech

08-30-2009, 03:34 AM	#15
squint User Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 15 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Uh, I'm a Luger newby too but don't you have to have a magazine in the pistol to lock the toggle back?

08-30-2009, 06:42 AM	#16
klaus 3338 User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 513 Thanks: 0 Thanked 394 Times in 156 Posts	The letters are workerstamps. The reason for stamping such letters was that the DWM in this case wont to know who of the workers was working on the part of the gun. If there would have been some more problems with the (Leerenhaltigkeit in German) same parts on several Lugers they could find out, who of the workers made the problems. I would be able to give more informations about it but because of my poor English I´m missing the right words. But I hope you will know what I mean. Regards Klaus

08-30-2009, 07:52 AM	#18
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	You did just fine, Klaus. Better than most of us would do in German. FN

08-30-2009, 10:02 AM	#19
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,614 Thanks: 3,140 Thanked 2,519 Times in 939 Posts	Klaus If I had your luger knowledge I wouldn't care if I was speaking in an alien tongue. You do great. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

08-30-2009, 11:10 AM	#20
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,181 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,438 Times in 2,327 Posts	I think this is the first 5-digit commercial serial w/o letter that I've seen... Is that odd??? (The serial, I mean...not my lack of seeing)...