LugerForum Discussion Forums my profile | register | faq | search
upload photo | donate | calendar

Go Back   LugerForum Discussion Forums > General Discussion Forums > Repairs, Restoration & Refinishing

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 08-01-2017, 11:01 PM   #1
DonVoigt
User
 
DonVoigt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: near Charlotte NC
Posts: 4,681
Thanks: 1,441
Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts
Lightbulb New project: Luger re-barreled to .45 GAP

I got a 5" .45 GAP barrel with .45 size breech block a while back from Ed Tinker, made by "Lugerman".

It was un-chambered but threaded and in hopes of ultimately being able to design a magazine/feed device , I chose to chamber to the shorter .45 GAP cartridge.

Barrel took a little tweaking, GT re-cut the threads to deepen them to fit a well used and ugly receiver I had for the project. Thanks GT.. He finished it this past week and I spent the weekend getting it to the single shot test stage it is in now.

Fired it today, twice, worked fine. Had no extractor or ejector at the test firing, but as it went well I have added them this pm and will test their function as the next step in "development".

The design and implementation of a feeding device will take some thinking and time, as the .45 is too large in diameter for a typical magazine- will likely use the opening itself as the body - with some sort of feed lips added to the frame. Or not. I'll be re-studying the pictures of the way others have approached the challenge. Ideas welcome!!!!

Some pictures of the pieces and project are below.

When fired today I used a 42 vintage Mauser lower. the "tape" test compared with a 9mm shooter is shown, the .45 is on the right. Also shown with a 9mm G Date Mauser for size comparison.

Recoil was noticably "stronger", not sharp like a 9mm but just "robust"!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	P1210253.jpg
Views:	264
Size:	161.3 KB
ID:	67596  

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1210254.jpg
Views:	241
Size:	57.5 KB
ID:	67597  

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1210257.jpg
Views:	246
Size:	82.7 KB
ID:	67598  

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1210260.jpg
Views:	243
Size:	96.0 KB
ID:	67599  

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1210270.jpg
Views:	269
Size:	84.5 KB
ID:	67600  

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1210258.jpg
Views:	268
Size:	165.2 KB
ID:	67601  

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1210251.jpg
Views:	243
Size:	93.3 KB
ID:	67602  

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1210269.jpg
Views:	274
Size:	88.6 KB
ID:	67603  

__________________
03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector.
Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie
DonVoigt is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 9 members says Thank You to DonVoigt for your post:
Unread 08-01-2017, 11:09 PM   #2
Puretexan
User
 
Puretexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Pearland Texas
Posts: 176
Thanks: 11
Thanked 70 Times in 36 Posts
Default

Really nice. Wonder if you could design a stripper clip and use something like a broom
handle mauser design. Might not work but lots of rifles and pistols got away from a
mag that was removable to a self contained one.
Puretexan is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 2 members says Thank You to Puretexan for your post:
Unread 08-01-2017, 11:35 PM   #3
DonVoigt
User
 
DonVoigt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: near Charlotte NC
Posts: 4,681
Thanks: 1,441
Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Puretexan View Post
Really nice. Wonder if you could design a stripper clip and use something like a broom
handle mauser design. Might not work but lots of rifles and pistols got away from a
mag that was removable to a self contained one.
That is one option; usually that only works with a double stack mag though. There just is not enough room in the luger mag well.

Some folks got around the problem and there are single stack charger loading pistols, usually the feed lips are hinged or springy so the rounds can be stripped into the body.
__________________
03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector.
Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie
DonVoigt is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-01-2017, 11:39 PM   #4
Edward Tinker
Super Moderator
Eternal Lifer
LugerForum
Patron
 
Edward Tinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North of Spokane, WA
Posts: 15,926
Thanks: 2,014
Thanked 4,523 Times in 2,089 Posts
Default

Yes, my thoughts too. Over my head.

Eugene has a four inch and five inch he is making me, these were ideas that Eugene played with before the 45 acp complete pistols he is making him. He had five or six sets and I traded, bought parts from him. I traded these parts to Don with ulterior motives, since he is much more handy than I am .

I'll do a write up after I get my guns back from Eugene, mine will be one 45 acp and one 45 gap. Both single shots. I am a forty five guy at heart
Edward Tinker is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 3 members says Thank You to Edward Tinker for your post:
Unread 08-02-2017, 12:11 AM   #5
Puretexan
User
 
Puretexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Pearland Texas
Posts: 176
Thanks: 11
Thanked 70 Times in 36 Posts
Default

Maybe you could copy the design that guy is using to make a 45 cal luger. He got past it somehow. I really didn't study that one as I don't have 4 or 5 grand to invest in his pistol at the moment. Got a good start and I'm sure you will come up with the answer.
Sometimes a Mexican dish with extra salsa, late at night, will give you the answer in a dream.
Puretexan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-02-2017, 05:04 AM   #6
lfid
Lifer
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wichita, KS USA
Posts: 453
Thanks: 573
Thanked 96 Times in 53 Posts
Default

Don,
very cool - good luck with the project !!!

GT and Ed and Lugerman - way to go gappers !

I think I like the 45 gap since the 45 acp frame is wider lengthwise - and it seems that the P08 frame is already at the limit of reasonable trigger contact relationship with trigger finger

Werle has some 45 acp luger conversion pictures on his web site and also some utube 45 luger videos - 45 acp cartridge is fed into a port on right side thru grip - which seems likely suitable for 45 gap also. So might be an alternative to top loading like Wyatt.

Also, there are patent drawings on the web of the Wyatt-Imthurm 45 acp luger conversion inc the internal magazine details .

Happy projects !
Bill
lfid is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-02-2017, 08:17 AM   #7
LugerMan.com
User
 
LugerMan.com's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 377
Thanks: 91
Thanked 361 Times in 113 Posts
Default

Don,
Thanks for bringing this old project back to life.

Now Ed who is patiently waiting for his 2 guns to be finished ,will be less patient I am sure.

I still got some sets of the GAP conversions sitting around, Ed did not get them all, if anyone cares for it.
__________________
Eugene@LugerMan.com
LugerMan.com is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 3 members says Thank You to LugerMan.com for your post:
Unread 08-02-2017, 09:32 AM   #8
DonVoigt
User
 
DonVoigt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: near Charlotte NC
Posts: 4,681
Thanks: 1,441
Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Puretexan View Post
Maybe you could copy the design that guy is using to make a 45 cal luger. He got past it somehow. I really didn't study that one as I don't have 4 or 5 grand to invest in his pistol at the moment. Got a good start and I'm sure you will come up with the answer.
Sometimes a Mexican dish with extra salsa, late at night, will give you the answer in a dream.
John,
Eugene solved the magazine problem by up-sizing the entire frame; i.e. he made it bigger!

So there is room for a "real" magazine in his new made pistol, which is a little larger in all dimensions than the norm.

He may have kept some of the operating parts the same size, like striker, safety- but I don't know for sure.
__________________
03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector.
Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie
DonVoigt is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to DonVoigt for your post:
Unread 08-02-2017, 11:41 AM   #9
Ron Wood
Moderator
2010 LugerForum
Patron
 
Ron Wood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso
Posts: 7,010
Thanks: 1,088
Thanked 5,149 Times in 1,694 Posts
Default

It would be a bit difficult to use a stripper clip implementation on a Luger as there isn't a convenient place to attach the clip. Using the frame as a magazine is probably the best way to go, a la the Wyatt .45 conversions. A slot in the grip panel, a hole in the follower and a rod to insert in the hole to use like the thumb button on a Luger magazine makes loading a pretty easy process.
Nice work so far Don!
Ron
__________________
If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction
Ron Wood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-02-2017, 12:26 PM   #10
Neil Young
Lifer
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
Neil Young's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Scottsboro, Alabama
Posts: 545
Thanks: 559
Thanked 442 Times in 168 Posts
Default

Impressive work Don.
__________________
Neil The hurrier I go the behinder I get. Sometimes it takes me all day to get nothing done.
Neil Young is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-02-2017, 01:01 PM   #11
sheepherder
Lifer
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
sheepherder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal...
Posts: 8,182
Thanks: 1,400
Thanked 4,441 Times in 2,329 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonVoigt View Post
So there is room for a "real" magazine in his new made pistol, which is a little larger in all dimensions than the norm.
Cool project!

Don, IIRC one of the old members posted that he had opened up the magwell width-wise with a broach to take a .45 magazine (I don't recall what magazine). It shouldn't take too much. The .45 GAP should be good length-wise.

I think that .45 Luger shows up in the Random Album Pics every so often.
__________________
I like my coffee the
way I like my women...
...Cold and bitter...
sheepherder is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to sheepherder for your post:
Unread 08-02-2017, 01:15 PM   #12
unitedcs
User
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Land O Lakes, Florida
Posts: 90
Thanks: 8
Thanked 30 Times in 15 Posts
Default

Very cool project, where did you get the bolt or did you make it yourself
unitedcs is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to unitedcs for your post:
Unread 08-02-2017, 01:37 PM   #13
Rick W.
User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 339
Thanks: 81
Thanked 359 Times in 198 Posts
Default

I have always wondered how the Wyatt handled the toggle hold open, with no removable magazine. I believe the Wyatt is loaded from the top with assistance of a removable crossbar in the grip slots, so Wyatt must have overcome all of that static toggle stuff.

I have a copy of the Wyatt patent, but not paid enough attention to figure that out on the toggle hold open jazz, maybe a source of info.

I remember a 45 GAP custom Luger on this site. I was very impressed with the craftsmanship in it, but it truly was custom and the guy doing it, knew how.
Rick W. is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-02-2017, 01:52 PM   #14
Ron Wood
Moderator
2010 LugerForum
Patron
 
Ron Wood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso
Posts: 7,010
Thanks: 1,088
Thanked 5,149 Times in 1,694 Posts
Default

I hadn't thought about the hold-open on a Wyatt. Good question. Hope you can dig out the patent and figure it out!
Ron
__________________
If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction
Ron Wood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-02-2017, 02:00 PM   #15
Ron Wood
Moderator
2010 LugerForum
Patron
 
Ron Wood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso
Posts: 7,010
Thanks: 1,088
Thanked 5,149 Times in 1,694 Posts
Default

I found the patent. Wyatt (or Imthurn) modified the original hold-open by putting a tab on it that is activated by the follower rather than a magazine button. Cool!
__________________
If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction
Ron Wood is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 2 members says Thank You to Ron Wood for your post:
Unread 08-02-2017, 04:16 PM   #16
Rick W.
User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 339
Thanks: 81
Thanked 359 Times in 198 Posts
Default

Yeah, simple and relatively elegant.......seems logical........probably works too.

all these year, if it would have been an alligator, it would have gotten me............appreciate the nudge.
Rick W. is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-02-2017, 04:53 PM   #17
sheepherder
Lifer
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
sheepherder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal...
Posts: 8,182
Thanks: 1,400
Thanked 4,441 Times in 2,329 Posts
Default

Don, I think this is the .45 Luger that pops up occasionally...Lemme see if it'll link...It's in the Members gallery...They're BIG pics...


http://forum.lugerforum.com/gallery2...?g2_itemId=787


__________________
I like my coffee the
way I like my women...
...Cold and bitter...
sheepherder is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to sheepherder for your post:
Unread 08-02-2017, 07:43 PM   #18
DonVoigt
User
 
DonVoigt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: near Charlotte NC
Posts: 4,681
Thanks: 1,441
Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by unitedcs View Post
Very cool project, where did you get the bolt or did you make it yourself
Lugerman , Eugene Golubtsov, made the breech block and turned the barrel.
__________________
03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector.
Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie
DonVoigt is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-02-2017, 07:44 PM   #19
DonVoigt
User
 
DonVoigt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: near Charlotte NC
Posts: 4,681
Thanks: 1,441
Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Wood View Post
I found the patent. Wyatt (or Imthurn) modified the original hold-open by putting a tab on it that is activated by the follower rather than a magazine button. Cool!
And an elegant solution!

Rich,
thanks for the pictures and the link!
Very interesting "Stoeger" .45 luger.
__________________
03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector.
Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie
DonVoigt is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-08-2017, 01:35 PM   #20
DonVoigt
User
 
DonVoigt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: near Charlotte NC
Posts: 4,681
Thanks: 1,441
Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts
Default

Update 8-8-2017

Just back from the range, still single shot ; BUT extracts and ejection is fine! Hold open works, so makes it fairly easy to load one round at a time.

Now if I can just "figure" out a magazine!
__________________
03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector.
Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie
DonVoigt is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to DonVoigt for your post:
Reply

Tags
45 gap, luger

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1998 - 2024, Lugerforum.com