Sharing & Questions - Family Luger

JohnFalc · 12-19-2008, 04:23 PM

Just sharing some pictures of the Artillery Luger my grandfather brought back from Europe at the end of the Great War. He was brought down by machine gun fire while leading his platoon on an assault in the Meuse-Argonne with the 91st Division so I don't know if he picked this up before or after his hospitalization. Fun side note is that I was in the same 91st Division as an artillery officer some 50 years later.

It has always been in our family and I remember shooting it in the 1950's as a youngster. I have had it out only a few times in the last decade, taking it to a range near our home to let my son and close friends shoot it.

I would appreciate any comments, especially regarding the markings on it, that may let me know a bit more of its history. I also would like to hear opinions as to whether we should continue to get it out every couple of years to shoot it and how we should best preserve it (I do clean it and lube it but from the pictures I see some traces of rust so I must not be doing as good a job as I thought).

BTW - the numbers on all parts match, including the number on one of the magazines.

Thanks for any comments. John

ADMIN: These pictures were over 6 mb's each, pleasae do not do that; some of our members are still on dial up...

JohnFalc · 12-19-2008, 06:04 PM

Sorry about the large pictures - henceforth I'll post links or reduce the size. John

wlyon · 12-19-2008, 06:14 PM

John
Looks like a very nice Artillery! The holster and stock look very nice also. Does the stock have a number and proof anywhere? The proof marks you have on the right receiver are standard ww1 proofs. I recommend you field strip this and lubricate all the metal with a good gun solvent or oil. Do this a couple times a year. Clean and lubricate the barrel. Do not store the luger in the holster. I recommend that you do not shoot this,especially if all the parts match. It is to much risk to break a correct marked part. It does not need to be shot, just kept clean and protected. Suggest you write up what you know about your Grandfather obtaining this and keep the write up in the holster. A truly great family treasue and of a quality we all would like to own. Thanks for sharing and welcome to the forum. Bill

Edward Tinker · 12-19-2008, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnFalc

Sorry about the large pictures - henceforth I'll post links or reduce the size. John

John, welcome to the forum! I am sorry for the abrupt un-welcome, but the pictures made my eyes bleed they were so large

Nice artillery rig!

Ed

Imperial Arms · 12-19-2008, 06:28 PM

Nice LP-08 rig, especially the condition of the holster. I recommend that you do NOT shoot this rig to order to perserve its value and cherish it.

All the best,
Albert

JohnFalc · 12-19-2008, 07:18 PM

Thanks for the feedback fellows.

The stock does have a number stamped on the piece of steel that serves as rails to connect to the pistol. The number is 5155, and below the number is stamped something looking a bit like a cross between a lowercase "L" and a lowercase "B". Additionally, under the four screws that secure the leather holster latch strap, there is some mark stamped into the wood of the stock, this looks somewhat like a side view of a knight from a chess set.

The leather of the holster/stock is all complete and supple but dry - any advice on preserving it? I do have, in pockets of the holster, a cleaning rod, and an oddly shaped little tool as well.

I am disappointed at the advice not to shoot the pistol - I'll take that to heart but don't think I can resist going out to the range one more time. I shot about 50 rounds about six months ago and she worked really great.

John

Vlim · 12-19-2008, 07:26 PM

John,

The gun is rust blued which is, as the name suggests, a rust process to begin with. So under bright light it's normal to see some rust under the blue. It's a good sign, it's original and supposed to be this way. The pistol is in a really nice condition and although they can take a beating the loss of value when you accidentally break a small part during shooting can make your eyes water.

The solution, of course, is to pamper this one and look out for a shooter grade artillery

The oddly shaped tool is a screwdriver/loading tool. The tool can be slipped over the magazine button, creating a thumb rest that makes loading the mag a lot easier. The 'knight' is most likely a large Crown/S acceptance mark. It's supposed to be there, so that's good.

About the leather: Talk to our leather guru 'lugerholsterrepair'. The best advice is not to use any commercial leather care or cleaning products at all. Connolly's 'Hide food' is one of the exceptions.

BobF · 12-19-2008, 08:04 PM

I have a 1921 model w/serial # 962,all the rest is 62 w/a non matching clip w/the holster.Nice to see the real old ones.

Sieger · 12-19-2008, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnFalc

Thanks for the feedback fellows.
I am disappointed at the advice not to shoot the pistol - I'll take that to heart but don't think I can resist going out to the range one more time. I shot about 50 rounds about six months ago and she worked really great.

John

John:

If it were mine, I'd put a thousand rounds a week through it!!

Be that as it may, if you are not familier with reloading for a Luger or just what commercial ammo is a close approximation to the original German load, I'd take the other responder's advice and just keep it well cleaned and oiled.

After cleaning the bore and all metal surfaces with your favorite bore cleaner and a few soft cotton patches (to remove surface oxidation) I'd whip it down with some Breakfree CLP about every few months or so. Salty fingerprints will cause rust, so remember to whip it down after each examination. In the photos, the pistol does look very "dry".

Just how did your grandfather end up in the 91st in 1968?

Sieger

Edward Tinker · 12-19-2008, 09:05 PM

Even with reloads, or mild rounds, if you break a numbered part, value drops about in half. Yes, it is rare, but there are more than one story here on the forum of it happening.

I myself blew the breachblock on a long barrel luger about 4 months ago. It was a shooter, so I just lost the value of a breachblock; but your artillery could go from being worth $1800 (by itself) to $1000....

Ed

Sieger · 12-20-2008, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

Even with reloads, or mild rounds, if you break a numbered part, value drops about in half. Yes, it is rare, but there are more than one story here on the forum of it happening.

I myself blew the breachblock on a long barrel luger about 4 months ago. It was a shooter, so I just lost the value of a breachblock; but your artillery could go from being worth $1800 (by itself) to $1000....

Ed

Ed:

His rig is worth about three to four thousand!

How in the world did you blow a breachblock? What were you shooting through it? How was it "blown".

Sieger

Edward Tinker · 12-20-2008, 08:25 AM

Sieger, you are going down the right path, I was being stupid, surely at Christmas you don't want me to admit it in an open forum?

ed

JohnFalc · 12-20-2008, 10:04 AM

Re the question of my grandfather and the 91st.

He was in the 91st in WWI - was inducted out of ROTC and started training at Ft. Lewis in Washington. He wrote extensively of his wartime and training experiences (he was a lawyer) and I have all those hundreds of pages of details.

So ... he was NOT in the 91st in 1968. I am the one who was - just coincidentally I took a joint USA + CalNG commission at Ft. Sill (USA artillery school) after being trained first as a forward observer for artillery. I enlisted on Dec. 7, 1965 - got out after six years of mostly inactive duty. My unit was an artillery battalion using the motorized 175mm gun (yes, gun, not howitzer - we had HIGH muzzle velocity). So that's that.

Lugerdoc · 12-20-2008, 10:42 AM

John F, Good advise above. One source of rust that is often over looked is the grips which attact moisture. I'd also store them in the holster and make sure any rust that is starting on the frame under the grips, is wire brushed away and well oiled to prevent further rusting. If the serial number on your stock iron, matches the serial of the LPO8, this will also add to the value of the rig. TH

Sieger · 12-20-2008, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnFalc

Re the question of my grandfather and the 91st.

He was in the 91st in WWI - was inducted out of ROTC and started training at Ft. Lewis in Washington. He wrote extensively of his wartime and training experiences (he was a lawyer) and I have all those hundreds of pages of details.

Hi:

I'm sorry, but the value of your Luger Rig has just gone up again!!

What you have just told us is priceless!; a battlefield Luger with an accompanying full history of the U.S. Officer that captured it!! What you have is of great Historical signifigance, so treat it accordingly!!

In my opinion, you have just doubled the collector value of this fine Luger Rig!

Sieger

Sieger · 12-20-2008, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

Sieger, you are going down the right path, I was being stupid, surely at Christmas you don't want me to admit it in an open forum?

ed

Hi:

You are not off base with your warnings!

I want you to know that I, personally, cracked the slide of a byf 43 P-38 by shooting some hot Gun Show reloaded 9mm my Dad, unknowingly, purchased in Florida.

Later, I read that the 1943 Mauser production was known for cracked slides. Acutally, it was an error in design, as it cracked where the locking block engages the slide (thin metal here).

Our new Army Berretta uses this same locking system as the P-38 and is also known for cracked slides.

The ammo they are shooting through these new pistols (125 gr @ approx. 1260 fps) is some 20% stronger than the original 9MM Luger load (123 gr @ 1076 FPS) so watch out for surplus U.S. military ammo through a Luger!!

Sieger

Imperial Arms · 12-20-2008, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnFalc

Thanks for the feedback fellows.

The leather of the holster/stock is all complete and supple but dry - any advice on preserving it? I do have, in pockets of the holster, a cleaning rod, and an oddly shaped little tool as well.

John

Hello John,

The simplest way to perserve the leather is to clean it with (Kiwi) Saddle Soap. I use a horse hair polish application brush to apply the saddle soap to the leather and a sponge to remove the excess lather. When the leather is dry after the cleaning, just buff it up with a shoe shine brush and a soft cloth. After wards, cherish the rig as a family heirloom.

Cheers,
Albert

Imperial Arms · 12-20-2008, 06:03 PM

It is interesting to observe that one of the magazines has a blued body. Is this the magazine with the same serial number as the pistol?

Albert

JohnFalc · 12-21-2008, 03:09 AM

Fun to think of the value but, being a family piece I really would never sell it and see my care of it as just a responsibility of trust and to keep it for passing along (probably to my son). I never thought of tying my grandfather's extensive diaries from WWI to the Luger - they really stand as treasures on their own.

JohnFalc · 12-21-2008, 03:11 AM

The magazine with the number that matches the rest of the pistol is the one all the way to the right, closest to the handgrip. I didn't note much about the other two except that they are of different metal finish and that both have the wooden little handle at the base. One of those (not the matching numbered one) has one of the round pieces partially broken off.

12-19-2008, 04:23 PM	#1
JohnFalc User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: California Countryside Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Sharing & Questions - Family Luger Just sharing some pictures of the Artillery Luger my grandfather brought back from Europe at the end of the Great War. He was brought down by machine gun fire while leading his platoon on an assault in the Meuse-Argonne with the 91st Division so I don't know if he picked this up before or after his hospitalization. Fun side note is that I was in the same 91st Division as an artillery officer some 50 years later. It has always been in our family and I remember shooting it in the 1950's as a youngster. I have had it out only a few times in the last decade, taking it to a range near our home to let my son and close friends shoot it. I would appreciate any comments, especially regarding the markings on it, that may let me know a bit more of its history. I also would like to hear opinions as to whether we should continue to get it out every couple of years to shoot it and how we should best preserve it (I do clean it and lube it but from the pictures I see some traces of rust so I must not be doing as good a job as I thought). BTW - the numbers on all parts match, including the number on one of the magazines. Thanks for any comments. John ADMIN: These pictures were over 6 mb's each, pleasae do not do that; some of our members are still on dial up... Attached Thumbnails

12-19-2008, 06:14 PM	#3
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,619 Thanks: 3,144 Thanked 2,531 Times in 943 Posts	John Looks like a very nice Artillery! The holster and stock look very nice also. Does the stock have a number and proof anywhere? The proof marks you have on the right receiver are standard ww1 proofs. I recommend you field strip this and lubricate all the metal with a good gun solvent or oil. Do this a couple times a year. Clean and lubricate the barrel. Do not store the luger in the holster. I recommend that you do not shoot this,especially if all the parts match. It is to much risk to break a correct marked part. It does not need to be shot, just kept clean and protected. Suggest you write up what you know about your Grandfather obtaining this and keep the write up in the holster. A truly great family treasue and of a quality we all would like to own. Thanks for sharing and welcome to the forum. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

12-19-2008, 09:05 PM	#10
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,916 Thanks: 1,992 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	Even with reloads, or mild rounds, if you break a numbered part, value drops about in half. Yes, it is rare, but there are more than one story here on the forum of it happening. I myself blew the breachblock on a long barrel luger about 4 months ago. It was a shooter, so I just lost the value of a breachblock; but your artillery could go from being worth $1800 (by itself) to $1000.... Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-20-2008, 10:42 AM	#14
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	John F, Good advise above. One source of rust that is often over looked is the grips which attact moisture. I'd also store them in the holster and make sure any rust that is starting on the frame under the grips, is wire brushed away and well oiled to prevent further rusting. If the serial number on your stock iron, matches the serial of the LPO8, this will also add to the value of the rig. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

12-19-2008, 06:04 PM	#2
JohnFalc User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: California Countryside Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Sorry about the large pictures - henceforth I'll post links or reduce the size. John

12-19-2008, 06:28 PM	#5
Imperial Arms Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Malta, EU Posts: 579 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Nice LP-08 rig, especially the condition of the holster. I recommend that you do NOT shoot this rig to order to perserve its value and cherish it. All the best, Albert

12-19-2008, 07:18 PM	#6
JohnFalc User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: California Countryside Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the feedback fellows. The stock does have a number stamped on the piece of steel that serves as rails to connect to the pistol. The number is 5155, and below the number is stamped something looking a bit like a cross between a lowercase "L" and a lowercase "B". Additionally, under the four screws that secure the leather holster latch strap, there is some mark stamped into the wood of the stock, this looks somewhat like a side view of a knight from a chess set. The leather of the holster/stock is all complete and supple but dry - any advice on preserving it? I do have, in pockets of the holster, a cleaning rod, and an oddly shaped little tool as well. I am disappointed at the advice not to shoot the pistol - I'll take that to heart but don't think I can resist going out to the range one more time. I shot about 50 rounds about six months ago and she worked really great. John

12-19-2008, 07:26 PM	#7
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,047 Thanks: 1,034 Thanked 3,946 Times in 1,197 Posts	John, The gun is rust blued which is, as the name suggests, a rust process to begin with. So under bright light it's normal to see some rust under the blue. It's a good sign, it's original and supposed to be this way. The pistol is in a really nice condition and although they can take a beating the loss of value when you accidentally break a small part during shooting can make your eyes water. The solution, of course, is to pamper this one and look out for a shooter grade artillery The oddly shaped tool is a screwdriver/loading tool. The tool can be slipped over the magazine button, creating a thumb rest that makes loading the mag a lot easier. The 'knight' is most likely a large Crown/S acceptance mark. It's supposed to be there, so that's good. About the leather: Talk to our leather guru 'lugerholsterrepair'. The best advice is not to use any commercial leather care or cleaning products at all. Connolly's 'Hide food' is one of the exceptions.

12-19-2008, 08:04 PM	#8
BobF New User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I have a 1921 model w/serial # 962,all the rest is 62 w/a non matching clip w/the holster.Nice to see the real old ones.

12-20-2008, 08:25 AM	#12
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,916 Thanks: 1,992 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	Sieger, you are going down the right path, I was being stupid, surely at Christmas you don't want me to admit it in an open forum? ed

12-20-2008, 10:04 AM	#13
JohnFalc User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: California Countryside Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re the question of my grandfather and the 91st. He was in the 91st in WWI - was inducted out of ROTC and started training at Ft. Lewis in Washington. He wrote extensively of his wartime and training experiences (he was a lawyer) and I have all those hundreds of pages of details. So ... he was NOT in the 91st in 1968. I am the one who was - just coincidentally I took a joint USA + CalNG commission at Ft. Sill (USA artillery school) after being trained first as a forward observer for artillery. I enlisted on Dec. 7, 1965 - got out after six years of mostly inactive duty. My unit was an artillery battalion using the motorized 175mm gun (yes, gun, not howitzer - we had HIGH muzzle velocity). So that's that.

12-20-2008, 06:03 PM	#18
Imperial Arms Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Malta, EU Posts: 579 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	It is interesting to observe that one of the magazines has a blued body. Is this the magazine with the same serial number as the pistol? Albert

12-21-2008, 03:09 AM	#19
JohnFalc User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: California Countryside Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Fun to think of the value but, being a family piece I really would never sell it and see my care of it as just a responsibility of trust and to keep it for passing along (probably to my son). I never thought of tying my grandfather's extensive diaries from WWI to the Luger - they really stand as treasures on their own.

12-21-2008, 03:11 AM	#20
JohnFalc User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: California Countryside Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The magazine with the number that matches the rest of the pistol is the one all the way to the right, closest to the handgrip. I didn't note much about the other two except that they are of different metal finish and that both have the wooden little handle at the base. One of those (not the matching numbered one) has one of the round pieces partially broken off.