LugerForum Discussion Forums my profile | register | faq | search
upload photo | donate | calendar

Go Back   LugerForum Discussion Forums > Luger Discussion Forums > Swiss Lugers

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 04-08-2019, 09:46 AM   #1
P. Octo
User
 
P. Octo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Cannes, France
Posts: 32
Thanks: 20
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Default Questions about a 1929 Swiss Military

Learned gentlemen, here are my questions. I have a beautiful 1929 Swiss Military Lüger and I have found all the necessary references to identify it in Aaron Davis's book "The Standard Catalog of Lüger", page 157. Number fits.
But there are 4 discrepancies:
What is the mark on the back of the receiver?
Is the mark Left Front that of colonel Muhlemann?
Why a "P" on the front of the receiver?
Why a U notch when all the litterature tells of a V notch?
I am relying on your exoertise to enlighten me.
Those questions aside, it shoots beautifully and has a trigger of almost Benchrest quality.
Thank you in advance.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Back receiver.jpg
Views:	477
Size:	103.5 KB
ID:	76447  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Left front.jpg
Views:	456
Size:	110.1 KB
ID:	76448  

Click image for larger version

Name:	U notch.jpg
Views:	468
Size:	93.0 KB
ID:	76449  

Click image for larger version

Name:	P front receiver.jpg
Views:	459
Size:	85.2 KB
ID:	76450  

P. Octo is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 2 members says Thank You to P. Octo for your post:
Unread 04-08-2019, 11:45 AM   #2
ithacaartist
Twice a Lifer
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
ithacaartist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY
Posts: 3,307
Thanks: 7,116
Thanked 2,514 Times in 1,339 Posts
Default

I can give you a start, Phillipe.

The P is stamped on pistols that were decommissioned from the military and made available for Public sale.

The U notch strikes me as something the Swiss may have done to improve the traditional, crappy sight picture, IIRC.
__________________
"... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894
ithacaartist is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 2 members says Thank You to ithacaartist for your post:
Unread 04-08-2019, 12:19 PM   #3
rpbcps
Patron
LugerForum
Patron
 
rpbcps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Home base UK, but spend a lot of time overseas working.
Posts: 125
Thanks: 62
Thanked 158 Times in 49 Posts
Default

Phillipe,
I can add a little more information from my own research following my purchase of a deactivated 1906/29 Swiss Luger a few years ago.

The mark on the rear of the receiver is the 'Waffenfabrik' Bern marking.

The ‘M under cross’ is the proof of proof of Maj. Mühlemann, who was the factory inspector between 1913 and 1941.

I read that if a soldier elected to keep his firearm upon his retirement, before the weapon was released by the Swiss Military they were refurbished by the factory and stamped “P”, which on my example is stamped on the right-hand side of the frame.

The frame well of the 1906/29 were also stamped with the date of manufacture, month and year (two digits: MM.YY) on military and private sale pistols up to 1943.
rpbcps is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to rpbcps for your post:
Unread 04-08-2019, 12:43 PM   #4
P. Octo
User
 
P. Octo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Cannes, France
Posts: 32
Thanks: 20
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Default

Thanks to both of you; I had an inkling about the P and Muhlemann but I didn't know about the Waffenfabrik mark. I haven't found theMM/YY yet but will look for it.
P. Octo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-08-2019, 12:54 PM   #5
P. Octo
User
 
P. Octo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Cannes, France
Posts: 32
Thanks: 20
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Default

Found it, I presume: 46 1 which I think means January 1946? But it doesn't tally with your 1943 observation so I may be mistaken...
P. Octo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-08-2019, 01:49 PM   #6
rpbcps
Patron
LugerForum
Patron
 
rpbcps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Home base UK, but spend a lot of time overseas working.
Posts: 125
Thanks: 62
Thanked 158 Times in 49 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by P. Octo View Post
Found it, I presume: 46 1 which I think means January 1946? But it doesn't tally with your 1943 observation so I may be mistaken...
I am only learning about the 1906/29, and other Lugers from reading about them, so the "up to 1943" information may not be correct. 1946 was the final year of manufacture for these weapons I believe, but Maj. Mühlemann was the factory inspector between 1913 and 1941. So his mark would not be found on a 1906/29 produced in 1946? Again referring to my notes, I read that Major Hauri was the inspector between 1942 -1946

I have found with my other passion, Thompson Submachine guns, that a lot of the earlier books written on the subject contain some inaccurate information, which later books on the subject have corrected.
rpbcps is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to rpbcps for your post:
Unread 04-08-2019, 01:54 PM   #7
P. Octo
User
 
P. Octo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Cannes, France
Posts: 32
Thanks: 20
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Default

I quite agree and those figures may refer to something else: I only had a quick look and found them on the underside of the slide stamped on a square piece of metal roughly under the beginning of the chamber.
P. Octo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-08-2019, 02:10 PM   #8
rpbcps
Patron
LugerForum
Patron
 
rpbcps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Home base UK, but spend a lot of time overseas working.
Posts: 125
Thanks: 62
Thanked 158 Times in 49 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by P. Octo View Post
I quite agree and those figures may refer to something else: I only had a quick look and found them on the underside of the slide stamped on a square piece of metal roughly under the beginning of the chamber.
I am away from home at the moment, travelling to North Africa for work, or I would have posted a photo of the location.

Which reminds me, I have a flight to catch at 06:15, so wake up call at 03:45 and it is now 20:10 here in Madrid, so time for a shower and get some sleep.
rpbcps is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-08-2019, 05:26 PM   #9
mrerick
Super Moderator - Patron
LugerForum
Life Patron
 
mrerick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA
Posts: 3,904
Thanks: 1,374
Thanked 3,098 Times in 1,506 Posts
Default

When you get a chance, take the receiver/cannon assembly off the frame, and push the locking bolt lever back into normal position .

You should see the month and year that your Luger was manufactured stamped on the frame right under where the locking bolt rests when it's in the disassembly position.

The Swiss are a nation of target shooters, and their handguns and rifles reflect precision and accuracy needed to compete...

Marc
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	SwissLugerDateMarked.jpg
Views:	439
Size:	29.9 KB
ID:	76463  

__________________
Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum -
- Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.
mrerick is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 3 members says Thank You to mrerick for your post:
Unread 04-09-2019, 02:50 AM   #10
P. Octo
User
 
P. Octo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Cannes, France
Posts: 32
Thanks: 20
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Default

"You should see the month and year that your Luger was manufactured stamped on the frame right under where the locking bolt rests when it's in the disassembly position. "

Thanks Marc; I just did that and can barely see: 11.39 I needed a x12 magnifying glass and strong light to make out the stamped numbers.

Again, thanks to all who took the time to answer my query.
P. Octo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-09-2019, 05:00 AM   #11
P. Octo
User
 
P. Octo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Cannes, France
Posts: 32
Thanks: 20
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Default

By the way, I tried to check the date on my Swiss Military 1906 but to no avail. #5281. I couldn't see a trace of a date in the area pointed out...
P. Octo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-09-2019, 12:57 PM   #12
DonVoigt
User
 
DonVoigt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: near Charlotte NC
Posts: 4,678
Thanks: 1,441
Thanked 4,348 Times in 2,038 Posts
Default

I believe only Swiss made or re-worked lugers will have the date in the well; your 1906 made by DWM will not have had a date from the factory.
__________________
03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector.
Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie
DonVoigt is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 2 members says Thank You to DonVoigt for your post:
Unread 04-09-2019, 01:07 PM   #13
P. Octo
User
 
P. Octo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Cannes, France
Posts: 32
Thanks: 20
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Default

That's what I thought. BTW, my #5 post was stupid: those numbers were just the last 3 numbers of the serial numbers: nothing to do with the dates; I am no specialist, just an amateur. I should have re-read a couple of French magazines and would have found there the answers to 2 of my questions: the Waffenfabrik mark and the U notch.
Again, thanks for all the help!
P. Octo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-10-2019, 09:37 AM   #14
Sergio Natali
User
 
Sergio Natali's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy
Posts: 2,646
Thanks: 1,082
Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts
Default

I would advise you to buy "Parabellum. Storia e tecnica delle Luger svizzere- A technical history of Swiss Lugers" by Vittorio Bobba.
__________________
"Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.
Sergio Natali is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 2 members says Thank You to Sergio Natali for your post:
Unread 04-10-2019, 09:47 AM   #15
P. Octo
User
 
P. Octo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Cannes, France
Posts: 32
Thanks: 20
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by luger.parabellum View Post
I would advise you to buy "Parabellum. Storia e tecnica delle Luger svizzere- A technical history of Swiss Lugers" by Vittorio Bobba.
Yes indeed! I have looked it up but quite pricy. I am leaving for Italy tomorrow for a competition and will check with my Italian friends.
P. Octo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-10-2019, 06:50 PM   #16
mrerick
Super Moderator - Patron
LugerForum
Life Patron
 
mrerick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA
Posts: 3,904
Thanks: 1,374
Thanked 3,098 Times in 1,506 Posts
Default

Up until a couple of years ago, those were available new at reasonable prices from an online dealer in Italy. Have not looked recently.
__________________
Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum -
- Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.
mrerick is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-11-2019, 10:16 AM   #17
Lugerdoc
Patron
LugerForum
Patron
 
Lugerdoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302
Posts: 5,089
Thanks: 6
Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts
Default

Octo, This time of year I remember my visit to Cannes, just in time for the film festival and races in Monaco. Viva La France, TH
__________________
Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302
Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net
Lugerdoc is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to Lugerdoc for your post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1998 - 2024, Lugerforum.com