What Do I Have ?

belboy · 03-17-2004, 11:15 PM

Can anyone help me figure out what i have?
What I know: It is a Luger, It has the swiss cross / sunburst on it, it is stamped in a number of places with a crown / B / crown / U, there is a 40 stamped on the back, and the serial number is stamped on the bottom of the barrel and the front of the trigger guard, DWM is stamped on the top. I have pictures but i do not know how to post them.

belboy · 03-17-2004, 11:33 PM

I will try to add the photos i took. There are not many markings but i hav not taken the gun apart. The 40 on the back is the last 2 digits of the serial number.

Pete Ebbink · 03-18-2004, 11:29 AM

Hello Barry,

Welcome to the Luger Forum !

A few questions that will help us all zero-in on your luger :

What is the barrel length ?

What caliber (i.e. 30 luger or 9 mm) ?

What type of toggles knobs does it have ? Dished or flat ? (M1900 vs. M1906 and latter...)

What is the full serial number ? You can leave in an "x" or two....(i.e. 206x or 215xx)...This will help us find out exactly what year your pistol was made.

With what you posted, so far, you may have a M1900 Commercial Swiss (i.e. with BUG proofs).

Regards,

Pete.. <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

belboy · 03-18-2004, 11:35 AM

Ithas dished toggels. It is 7.62 MM or .30 cal. I have not measured the barrel but i would guess it is about 6". I emailed the pics to Edward Tinker so they should be posted soon. The serial number is 5240.

Admin: here are the pictures, Jim, they are very small, can you provide larger versions? Did your software (Microsoft suggest you make them smaller? If so, ignore that and send larger images).

Edward Tinker · 03-18-2004, 11:57 AM

Jim, see pictures above,

Ed

Pete Ebbink · 03-18-2004, 12:01 PM

As far as I can see from the small photos, it looks to be a Model 1900 Commercial Swiss, made by DWM, in .30 cal with a 4-3/4" barrel...in very decent shape.

Looks like you have a very nice luger...Barry !

Looks like it has the Swiss-modified "u" shaped rear sight notch and a Swiss-replaced blued, reinforced extractor.

I have emailed Barry to send large jpegs and I will post them for better presentation...

The 24th. edition of the Gun Blue Book Values on page 924 list a M1900 Swiss Commercial at :

98% finish - $ 3,750.00
95% finish - $ 3,000.00
90% finish - $ 2,450.00

+ 15% premium if luger has a wide trigger

Note: These values may be low as the Blue Book has tended to be with luger pricing for the past 2-3 years...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Pete Ebbink · 03-18-2004, 02:09 PM

Sorry, Ed...

I was so busy squinting at the small photos I missed reading your text...

I was also trying to give Barry some advice/help via the PM for a day or so...as well.

Hope we get new photos...I think his Swiss luger looks exciting !

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

John Sabato · 03-18-2004, 02:59 PM

Did you say something Ed?

John D. · 03-18-2004, 03:10 PM

How come Ed stopped posting to the LugerForum? Anyone heard from him over the past few days?? Also - belboy - NICE Pictures!!! Can you provide larger versions? Did your software (Microsoft suggest you make them smaller? If so, ignore that and send larger images)

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Pete Ebbink · 03-19-2004, 12:14 AM

Barry's photos...some of the original were a bit out of focus...

Barry, do you have other jpegs that you could send ? I would be happy to post more for you...

Also...is the interior of your frame and receiver "in the white"...i.e. not rust blued ?

Regards,

Pete...

Edward Tinker · 03-19-2004, 12:20 AM

Lightened

John Sabato · 03-19-2004, 10:03 AM

What a fine looking Model 1900 Luger... it is in incredible condition for its age... and does not look refinished to me in these photographs.

Where does a gun like this hide for a 100 years to stay so young? There doesn't seem to be an wood shrinkage... and the grips are a wonder to behold!

The skills it took to make this Luger simply cannot be replaced by CNC machine tools...

Thanks for sharing the photos of your exquisite Luger.

wterrell · 03-19-2004, 07:14 PM

The two pics show the pistol very nicely.

Pete Ebbink · 03-21-2004, 10:51 PM

Here are a few more photos Barry sent along...

Barry...I seemed to have lost 2 other photos...especially the one of your BUG proofs...could I trouble you to send again and I will post them...?

I had asked Barry to share photos of the frame's interior and the polished thumb safety area...as well as the LH receiver proofs and the under-the-barrel proofs.

<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/barry_left_side1_large.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/barry_left_side1_large.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>
<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/barry_rightside_large.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/barry_rightside_large.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>
<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/barrytrigger_large.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/barrytrigger_large.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Pete Ebbink · 03-22-2004, 08:16 PM

<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/barrysbarrel.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/barrysbarrel.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

belboy · 03-22-2004, 10:53 PM

Gentlemen - Thank you for your help. I had no idea what i had - your help is appreciated. By the way - what are BUG proofs and would i be crazy to shoot this gun?

Ron Wood · 03-22-2004, 11:07 PM

BUG proofs are the Crown/B, Crown/U and Crown/G proofs found on early Lugers. The Crown/B is a firing proof that preceeded the Crown/N nitro proof. The Crown/U is "Untersuchung" or inspection proof. The Crown/G is "Gezogen" which indicates that the barrel is rifled.

In my opinion you would be crazy to fire this Luger. You have a 100 year-old artifact in terrific condition. That laminated mainspring served the purpose in its day, but it was fragile enough to prompt a change to a coil spring in 1906. Setting the value/monetary considerations aside, if you break the mainspring it can be replaced (somewhat expensive and hard to find, but possible), but if you break one of the serial numbered structural items such as one of the toggle links or the breech block, you will have removed an intact, matched early Luger forever from the ever diminishing surviving examples.

You are very fortunate to have this fine example. Congratulations.

Pete Ebbink · 03-24-2004, 11:53 AM

Hello Barry,

Here is the V. Bobba book I had suggested if you have more interest in learning about Swiss lugers.

It is written in both Italian and English text and has the most beautiful photos of Swiss lugers through their evolution. Many photos are of museum-quality pieces...in which your pistol would feel right at home !

Regards,

Pete...

belboy · 03-25-2004, 06:56 PM

Thank you all for your help. It is quite evident that Lugers are a passion for all of you. Although, I am not quite to that point I can see myself getting there. There is no other gun i have or have held that fits and feels like a Luger.

Sincerely,
Barry

Navy · 03-25-2004, 08:14 PM

Barry,

Welcome to the addiction.

Tom A.

03-17-2004, 11:15 PM	#1
belboy User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: minnesota Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	What Do I Have ? Can anyone help me figure out what i have? What I know: It is a Luger, It has the swiss cross / sunburst on it, it is stamped in a number of places with a crown / B / crown / U, there is a 40 stamped on the back, and the serial number is stamped on the bottom of the barrel and the front of the trigger guard, DWM is stamped on the top. I have pictures but i do not know how to post them.

03-18-2004, 11:57 AM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Jim, see pictures above, Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

03-18-2004, 02:59 PM	#8
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Did you say something Ed? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-19-2004, 12:14 AM	#10
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Barry's photos...some of the original were a bit out of focus... Barry, do you have other jpegs that you could send ? I would be happy to post more for you... Also...is the interior of your frame and receiver "in the white"...i.e. not rust blued ? Regards, Pete... Last edited by Pete Ebbink; 12-26-2004 at 01:18 PM.

03-19-2004, 12:20 AM	#11
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Lightened __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV Last edited by Pete Ebbink; 12-26-2004 at 01:24 PM.

03-17-2004, 11:33 PM	#2
belboy User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: minnesota Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I will try to add the photos i took. There are not many markings but i hav not taken the gun apart. The 40 on the back is the last 2 digits of the serial number.

03-18-2004, 11:29 AM	#3
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Barry, Welcome to the Luger Forum ! A few questions that will help us all zero-in on your luger : What is the barrel length ? What caliber (i.e. 30 luger or 9 mm) ? What type of toggles knobs does it have ? Dished or flat ? (M1900 vs. M1906 and latter...) What is the full serial number ? You can leave in an "x" or two....(i.e. 206x or 215xx)...This will help us find out exactly what year your pistol was made. With what you posted, so far, you may have a M1900 Commercial Swiss (i.e. with BUG proofs). Regards, Pete.. <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

03-18-2004, 11:35 AM	#4
belboy User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: minnesota Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ithas dished toggels. It is 7.62 MM or .30 cal. I have not measured the barrel but i would guess it is about 6". I emailed the pics to Edward Tinker so they should be posted soon. The serial number is 5240. Admin: here are the pictures, Jim, they are very small, can you provide larger versions? Did your software (Microsoft suggest you make them smaller? If so, ignore that and send larger images).

03-18-2004, 12:01 PM	#6
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	As far as I can see from the small photos, it looks to be a Model 1900 Commercial Swiss, made by DWM, in .30 cal with a 4-3/4" barrel...in very decent shape. Looks like you have a very nice luger...Barry ! Looks like it has the Swiss-modified "u" shaped rear sight notch and a Swiss-replaced blued, reinforced extractor. I have emailed Barry to send large jpegs and I will post them for better presentation... The 24th. edition of the Gun Blue Book Values on page 924 list a M1900 Swiss Commercial at : 98% finish - $ 3,750.00 95% finish - $ 3,000.00 90% finish - $ 2,450.00 + 15% premium if luger has a wide trigger Note: These values may be low as the Blue Book has tended to be with luger pricing for the past 2-3 years... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

03-18-2004, 02:09 PM	#7
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Sorry, Ed... I was so busy squinting at the small photos I missed reading your text... I was also trying to give Barry some advice/help via the PM for a day or so...as well. Hope we get new photos...I think his Swiss luger looks exciting ! Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

03-18-2004, 03:10 PM	#9
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 471 Thanked 513 Times in 127 Posts	How come Ed stopped posting to the LugerForum? Anyone heard from him over the past few days?? Also - belboy - NICE Pictures!!! Can you provide larger versions? Did your software (Microsoft suggest you make them smaller? If so, ignore that and send larger images) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

03-19-2004, 10:03 AM	#12
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	What a fine looking Model 1900 Luger... it is in incredible condition for its age... and does not look refinished to me in these photographs. Where does a gun like this hide for a 100 years to stay so young? There doesn't seem to be an wood shrinkage... and the grips are a wonder to behold! The skills it took to make this Luger simply cannot be replaced by CNC machine tools... Thanks for sharing the photos of your exquisite Luger. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-19-2004, 07:14 PM	#13
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	The two pics show the pistol very nicely. __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

03-21-2004, 10:51 PM	#14
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Here are a few more photos Barry sent along... Barry...I seemed to have lost 2 other photos...especially the one of your BUG proofs...could I trouble you to send again and I will post them...? I had asked Barry to share photos of the frame's interior and the polished thumb safety area...as well as the LH receiver proofs and the under-the-barrel proofs. <a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/barry_left_side1_large.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/barry_left_side1_large.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/barry_rightside_large.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/barry_rightside_large.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/barrytrigger_large.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/barrytrigger_large.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

03-22-2004, 08:16 PM	#15
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/barrysbarrel.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/barrysbarrel.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

03-22-2004, 10:53 PM	#16
belboy User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: minnesota Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Gentlemen - Thank you for your help. I had no idea what i had - your help is appreciated. By the way - what are BUG proofs and would i be crazy to shoot this gun?

03-22-2004, 11:07 PM	#17
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	BUG proofs are the Crown/B, Crown/U and Crown/G proofs found on early Lugers. The Crown/B is a firing proof that preceeded the Crown/N nitro proof. The Crown/U is "Untersuchung" or inspection proof. The Crown/G is "Gezogen" which indicates that the barrel is rifled. In my opinion you would be crazy to fire this Luger. You have a 100 year-old artifact in terrific condition. That laminated mainspring served the purpose in its day, but it was fragile enough to prompt a change to a coil spring in 1906. Setting the value/monetary considerations aside, if you break the mainspring it can be replaced (somewhat expensive and hard to find, but possible), but if you break one of the serial numbered structural items such as one of the toggle links or the breech block, you will have removed an intact, matched early Luger forever from the ever diminishing surviving examples. You are very fortunate to have this fine example. Congratulations. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

03-24-2004, 11:53 AM	#18
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Barry, Here is the V. Bobba book I had suggested if you have more interest in learning about Swiss lugers. It is written in both Italian and English text and has the most beautiful photos of Swiss lugers through their evolution. Many photos are of museum-quality pieces...in which your pistol would feel right at home ! Regards, Pete...

03-25-2004, 06:56 PM	#19
belboy User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: minnesota Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you all for your help. It is quite evident that Lugers are a passion for all of you. Although, I am not quite to that point I can see myself getting there. There is no other gun i have or have held that fits and feels like a Luger. Sincerely, Barry

03-25-2004, 08:14 PM	#20
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Barry, Welcome to the addiction. Tom A.