a new Swiss luger

10e.licorne · 01-11-2005, 11:19 AM

Only for your information
this swiss luger is comming out from a french veteran son
it's a very small serial number (425) in very good condition (like new)

some pics

best regards
jean marie

Ron Wood · 01-11-2005, 12:11 PM

jean marie,
That is a wonderful discovery! Very early Swiss Lugers are among the most desirable collector's pieces. Does this Luger have the "flat-button" magazine and unrelieved frame, or does it use the standard magazine with the raised follower button?

10e.licorne · 01-11-2005, 12:56 PM

yes it's an flat button magazine and an unrelieved frame it's really a first delivery military command
I'm very happy for two reasons
first time I was looking to buy an s42 for shooting, I have sell my some time ago to purchase and antique colt 1900 for my collection ,
and I was speaking by internet whith the son of this veteran who want to have some information on some guns his father let him when he die
I give him all information I know and price idea in france it's about 3500$
at least he ask me if for 2000$ i will buy it and conserved it in my collection
I said yes of course
when I receved the parcel it was not one but two luger this swiss model and un erfurt P08 1914 marqued in very good condition for the same price
for the respect of his father I will never sell them
I dn't now why but the Erfurt came whith a swiss raised button magasine
it suit well
best regards

the gunman · 01-11-2005, 01:48 PM

Why o Why can't I have some luck like that. What a wonderful find.

Ron Wood · 01-11-2005, 02:16 PM

Outstanding!!! You are very fortunate. Unrelieved frames are very scarce as most of them were later modified to accept the standard magazine. You have an outstanding original early Luger, probably worth nearly 5 times the amount you paid for both Lugers! Congratulations.

Big Norm · 01-11-2005, 02:33 PM

Outstanding Luger! If there is one thing that people on this forum love it is seeing nice pictures of nice Lugers.

Ron Wood,
thanks for the pictures of an unrelieved frame.I have heard of it but never really knew what it was. I am going to upgrade my computer soon and I can only hope that I will be able to use a digital camera and software as well as you do. Again, thanks.
Big Norm

10e.licorne · 01-11-2005, 02:57 PM

here some pics of the Erfurt

http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/xluger1914g.jpg
http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/xluger1914d.jpg
http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfuploa...914culasse.jpg

I know I am very lucky one time on 40 years collecting

10e.licorne · 01-11-2005, 03:22 PM

http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfuploa...r1900canon.jpg
http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfuploa...00chargeur.jpg
http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfuploa...r1900puit2.jpg

pisto · 01-12-2005, 11:00 AM

Jean Marie,
thanks for sharing that pictures with us! The early llat button mags are very rare but to own one of these famous Lugers is most desireable!
Very few are remaining unalternated as Ron is already saying!
Thanks to Ron, excellent presentation of the difference!

Pete Ebbink · 01-12-2005, 03:38 PM

Hi Jean-Marie,

Thanks for sharing photos of your beautiful Swiss luger # 425 with us all here on the Luger Forum.

You are fortunate to have made just a wise buy !

Regards,

Pete...

pipeman45 · 01-12-2005, 11:14 PM

What a wonderful old gun. Thanks for sharing the pic's.

drbuster · 01-13-2005, 09:21 AM

Absolutely fabulous Swiss 1900! Thanks Jean-Marie for sharing the pictures with all of us. I am also interested in the "1914" Erfurt. At one time I owned a similar 1914 Erfurt serialed in the "q" suffix. I later learned that Erfurt made only 7000 (Still) 4" lugers that year. They are characterized by: no suffix, no notch on the chamber for the artillery sight, an unrelieved sear bar and two proof marks on the magazine bottom. My "1914" turned out to be actually a 1917 or 1918 piece with a 1914 dated receiver. Your photos seem to also be a later Erfurt with a 1914 dated receiver. I would like to know what the serial number and suffix, if any, are.

10e.licorne · 01-13-2005, 03:35 PM

thanks drbuster I have n't this information on my books
the serial number is 1969 no letter suffix
http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfuploa...914d_copy1.jpg
http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfuploa...914g_copy2.jpg
http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfuploa...asse_copy1.jpg
http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfuploa...14culasse1.jpg
http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfuploa...914detail1.jpg
http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfuploa...914detail3.jpg
http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfuploa...er1914s42a.jpg
as you may see the barrel and the left grip as be change by mauser between 1936-1939 (S/42 marck)
best regards
if you want more pics please ask

drbuster · 01-14-2005, 09:06 AM

Thanks Jean-Marie. Looks like the Erfurt was reworked both in the Weimar and Third Reich eras.

10e.licorne · 01-14-2005, 09:17 AM

hi
in his book The Luger handbook Aarron Davis said the 1900 swiss model commercial have germann commercial proof
why my have no proof mark ?
if some one may explain tanks

John Sabato · 01-14-2005, 10:02 AM

Jean Marie, I cannot comment on the 1900 Swiss because I don't have time today to do research... perhaps someone who specializes in this era of Luger production can comment, but I do know that while the Aaron Davis book has some good photographs, and may contain SOME valid information, it is NOT considered to be an accurate reference... I have thrown my copy of this book away a long time ago...

Ron Wood · 01-14-2005, 12:41 PM

Your 1900 Swiss is not a commercial, it is a military. So it should not have the "BUG" commercial proofs and is totally correct.

John Sabato's comments on Aaron Davis' book are worthwhile. The book is a useful tool if you use the "flow charts" to identify a Luger. The detailed information on the different variations is full of mistakes and misinformation. It is too bad that Mr. Davis did not take more care in the preparation of this book, because it could have been a very good reference for the beginning collector.

Pete Ebbink · 01-16-2005, 11:00 PM

Hi Jean Marie,

This other, early M1900 Swiss luger (serial # 3xx) was sold by a USA dealer last year. It had an asking price of $ 11,500.00 USD. That was the asking price...not sure what the actual as-sold price was. It was sold by Doug Smith of FGS, Inc. in Ohio.

Regards,

Pete...

10e.licorne · 01-17-2005, 12:51 AM

thanks pete and ron and all others
it seem that the first (500?) pieces was without german proof
I will give a bad note to Ned Schwing in is Military Firearms he said page 92 "the military serial range is 2000-500; the commercial range 01-21250 the were 2000 commercial and 3000 military models manfactured"
that why I beliewe first time it was a commercial luger
tanks
jean-marie

01-11-2005, 11:19 AM	#1
10e.licorne User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: near Perpignan in France Posts: 85 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	a new Swiss luger Only for your information this swiss luger is comming out from a french veteran son it's a very small serial number (425) in very good condition (like new) some pics best regards jean marie Attached Thumbnails __________________ d'nt say i will do it .... do it

01-11-2005, 12:11 PM	#2
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	jean marie, That is a wonderful discovery! Very early Swiss Lugers are among the most desirable collector's pieces. Does this Luger have the "flat-button" magazine and unrelieved frame, or does it use the standard magazine with the raised follower button? __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-11-2005, 12:56 PM	#3
10e.licorne User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: near Perpignan in France Posts: 85 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	yes it's an flat button magazine and an unrelieved frame it's really a first delivery military command I'm very happy for two reasons first time I was looking to buy an s42 for shooting, I have sell my some time ago to purchase and antique colt 1900 for my collection , and I was speaking by internet whith the son of this veteran who want to have some information on some guns his father let him when he die I give him all information I know and price idea in france it's about 3500$ at least he ask me if for 2000$ i will buy it and conserved it in my collection I said yes of course when I receved the parcel it was not one but two luger this swiss model and un erfurt P08 1914 marqued in very good condition for the same price for the respect of his father I will never sell them I dn't now why but the Erfurt came whith a swiss raised button magasine it suit well best regards __________________ d'nt say i will do it .... do it

01-11-2005, 02:16 PM	#5
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	Outstanding!!! You are very fortunate. Unrelieved frames are very scarce as most of them were later modified to accept the standard magazine. You have an outstanding original early Luger, probably worth nearly 5 times the amount you paid for both Lugers! Congratulations. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-11-2005, 02:57 PM	#7
10e.licorne User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: near Perpignan in France Posts: 85 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	here some pics of the Erfurt http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/xluger1914g.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/xluger1914d.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfuploa...914culasse.jpg I know I am very lucky one time on 40 years collecting __________________ d'nt say i will do it .... do it

01-11-2005, 01:48 PM	#4
the gunman User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Leland NC 28451 Posts: 1,017 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	Why o Why can't I have some luck like that. What a wonderful find.

01-11-2005, 02:33 PM	#6
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Outstanding Luger! If there is one thing that people on this forum love it is seeing nice pictures of nice Lugers. Ron Wood, thanks for the pictures of an unrelieved frame.I have heard of it but never really knew what it was. I am going to upgrade my computer soon and I can only hope that I will be able to use a digital camera and software as well as you do. Again, thanks. Big Norm

01-11-2005, 03:22 PM	#8
10e.licorne User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: near Perpignan in France Posts: 85 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfuploa...r1900canon.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfuploa...00chargeur.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfuploa...r1900puit2.jpg __________________ d'nt say i will do it .... do it

01-12-2005, 11:00 AM	#9
pisto User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 228 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Jean Marie, thanks for sharing that pictures with us! The early llat button mags are very rare but to own one of these famous Lugers is most desireable! Very few are remaining unalternated as Ron is already saying! Thanks to Ron, excellent presentation of the difference!

01-12-2005, 03:38 PM	#10
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Jean-Marie, Thanks for sharing photos of your beautiful Swiss luger # 425 with us all here on the Luger Forum. You are fortunate to have made just a wise buy ! Regards, Pete... Last edited by Pete Ebbink; 01-12-2005 at 11:20 PM.

01-12-2005, 11:14 PM	#11
pipeman45 User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Kentucky Posts: 539 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	What a wonderful old gun. Thanks for sharing the pic's. __________________ Dave

01-13-2005, 09:21 AM	#12
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Absolutely fabulous Swiss 1900! Thanks Jean-Marie for sharing the pictures with all of us. I am also interested in the "1914" Erfurt. At one time I owned a similar 1914 Erfurt serialed in the "q" suffix. I later learned that Erfurt made only 7000 (Still) 4" lugers that year. They are characterized by: no suffix, no notch on the chamber for the artillery sight, an unrelieved sear bar and two proof marks on the magazine bottom. My "1914" turned out to be actually a 1917 or 1918 piece with a 1914 dated receiver. Your photos seem to also be a later Erfurt with a 1914 dated receiver. I would like to know what the serial number and suffix, if any, are.

01-13-2005, 03:35 PM	#13
10e.licorne User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: near Perpignan in France Posts: 85 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	thanks drbuster I have n't this information on my books the serial number is 1969 no letter suffix http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfuploa...914d_copy1.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfuploa...914g_copy2.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfuploa...asse_copy1.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfuploa...14culasse1.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfuploa...914detail1.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfuploa...914detail3.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfuploa...er1914s42a.jpg as you may see the barrel and the left grip as be change by mauser between 1936-1939 (S/42 marck) best regards if you want more pics please ask __________________ d'nt say i will do it .... do it

01-14-2005, 09:06 AM	#14
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Thanks Jean-Marie. Looks like the Erfurt was reworked both in the Weimar and Third Reich eras.

01-14-2005, 09:17 AM	#15
10e.licorne User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: near Perpignan in France Posts: 85 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	hi in his book The Luger handbook Aarron Davis said the 1900 swiss model commercial have germann commercial proof why my have no proof mark ? if some one may explain tanks __________________ d'nt say i will do it .... do it

01-14-2005, 10:02 AM	#16
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Jean Marie, I cannot comment on the 1900 Swiss because I don't have time today to do research... perhaps someone who specializes in this era of Luger production can comment, but I do know that while the Aaron Davis book has some good photographs, and may contain SOME valid information, it is NOT considered to be an accurate reference... I have thrown my copy of this book away a long time ago... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

01-14-2005, 12:41 PM	#17
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	Your 1900 Swiss is not a commercial, it is a military. So it should not have the "BUG" commercial proofs and is totally correct. John Sabato's comments on Aaron Davis' book are worthwhile. The book is a useful tool if you use the "flow charts" to identify a Luger. The detailed information on the different variations is full of mistakes and misinformation. It is too bad that Mr. Davis did not take more care in the preparation of this book, because it could have been a very good reference for the beginning collector. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-16-2005, 11:00 PM	#18
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Jean Marie, This other, early M1900 Swiss luger (serial # 3xx) was sold by a USA dealer last year. It had an asking price of $ 11,500.00 USD. That was the asking price...not sure what the actual as-sold price was. It was sold by Doug Smith of FGS, Inc. in Ohio. Regards, Pete...

01-17-2005, 12:51 AM	#19
10e.licorne User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: near Perpignan in France Posts: 85 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	thanks pete and ron and all others it seem that the first (500?) pieces was without german proof I will give a bad note to Ned Schwing in is Military Firearms he said page 92 "the military serial range is 2000-500; the commercial range 01-21250 the were 2000 commercial and 3000 military models manfactured" that why I beliewe first time it was a commercial luger tanks jean-marie __________________ d'nt say i will do it .... do it