Feeding P08 and P38, 115 FMJ Bullseye

P08Leder · 11-11-2015, 09:53 PM

I have a 1918 Erfurt P08 and a 1963 P38 with an aluminum frame
I took them shooting using my standard WWB equivalent load
115 FMJ, 4.6 grains of Bullseye and OAL 1.150.
They shot fine, same recoil and report as WWB.
But now I search and see suggestions to drop back to 3.7 or even as low as 3.5 grains.
Is this because of the age of the weapons or the Luger design?
At some minimum load, I am sure they will stop functioning.
Thanks

P08Leder · 11-11-2015, 09:55 PM

Photos

Edward Tinker · 11-11-2015, 10:22 PM

I think if its working, I'd leave it alone. However, when I used to reload I used to start light with a handful, then go higher until I had a reliable reload that was easier on the old action. However, many times folks say use WWB because its already an easy load.

I know that the aluminum frame has a reputation of cracking until there was a fix. I would have to look up which ones were affected and what the fix was.

DonVoigt · 11-11-2015, 10:37 PM

You may not have much luck with lighter loads in the luger, they need good recoil to function;
however, I would go with the lightest I could in the aluminum frame P 38.

The P 38 is more forgiving so you should be able to get a reliable lighter load.

kurusu · 11-12-2015, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P08Leder

Is this because of the age of the weapons or the Luger design?

Thanks

Luger design is quite strong (stronger then the P38, and the Beretta 92 for that matter). Biggest issue is really old age.
Any working firearm can and will break parts with the passing of time.

One of the reasons I select for shooters late Mauser made P.08s. They are also old, but not as old as WWI vintage pistols.

mrerick · 11-12-2015, 07:18 AM

The P.1 / Alloy framed P.38 pistols had to be reinforced with a hex steel pin due to frame damage caused when higher power loads (think +P or Nato power rounds) were used. It was placed just above the trigger guard.

Early pistols were retrofitted, later ones came this way from the factory.

I've marked the pin in RED in this picture:

P08Leder · 11-12-2015, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrerick

The P.1 / Alloy framed P.38 pistols had to be reinforced with a hex steel pin due to frame damage caused when higher power loads (think +P or Nato power rounds) were used. It was placed just above the trigger guard.

Early pistols were retrofitted, later ones came this way from the factory.

I've marked the pin in RED in this picture:

mine does not have this feature.

I guess I will start a ladder down on powder loads to find a minimum working load.
I do not want to blow up these guns!

kurusu · 11-12-2015, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P08Leder

mine does not have this feature.

I guess I will start a ladder down on powder loads to find a minimum working load.
I do not want to blow up these guns!

If you are using a load equivalent to WWB there should be no problem in your alloy frame P38. WWB is well below NATO standards.

rhuff · 11-12-2015, 02:48 PM

If you have developed an equivalent WWB 115gr load, I would not expect damage to either handgun using your loads. As above, these are old handguns, and they can/will break with usage and time.....they are just machines.

11-11-2015, 09:53 PM	#1
P08Leder User Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 77 Thanks: 8 Thanked 43 Times in 18 Posts	Feeding P08 and P38, 115 FMJ Bullseye I have a 1918 Erfurt P08 and a 1963 P38 with an aluminum frame I took them shooting using my standard WWB equivalent load 115 FMJ, 4.6 grains of Bullseye and OAL 1.150. They shot fine, same recoil and report as WWB. But now I search and see suggestions to drop back to 3.7 or even as low as 3.5 grains. Is this because of the age of the weapons or the Luger design? At some minimum load, I am sure they will stop functioning. Thanks

11-11-2015, 09:55 PM	#2
P08Leder User Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 77 Thanks: 8 Thanked 43 Times in 18 Posts	Photos Attached Thumbnails

11-11-2015, 10:22 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,930 Thanks: 2,030 Thanked 4,527 Times in 2,090 Posts	I think if its working, I'd leave it alone. However, when I used to reload I used to start light with a handful, then go higher until I had a reliable reload that was easier on the old action. However, many times folks say use WWB because its already an easy load. I know that the aluminum frame has a reputation of cracking until there was a fix. I would have to look up which ones were affected and what the fix was. __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-12-2015, 07:18 AM	#6
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	P.1 Frame Reinforcement Hex Pin The P.1 / Alloy framed P.38 pistols had to be reinforced with a hex steel pin due to frame damage caused when higher power loads (think +P or Nato power rounds) were used. It was placed just above the trigger guard. Early pistols were retrofitted, later ones came this way from the factory. I've marked the pin in RED in this picture: Attached Thumbnails __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

11-11-2015, 10:37 PM	#4
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	You may not have much luck with lighter loads in the luger, they need good recoil to function; however, I would go with the lightest I could in the aluminum frame P 38. The P 38 is more forgiving so you should be able to get a reliable lighter load.

11-12-2015, 02:48 PM	#9
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,291 Thanks: 2,708 Thanked 972 Times in 717 Posts	If you have developed an equivalent WWB 115gr load, I would not expect damage to either handgun using your loads. As above, these are old handguns, and they can/will break with usage and time.....they are just machines.