Banner Mauser Rebarrel

JamesCollier · 08-06-2020, 04:05 PM

Last year I bought a 1940 police issue Bnner Mauser Luger. The gun is in beautiful, untouched condition, all matching, including the magazine, except for the barrel. It now wears a S/42 barrel marked 8.31with no serial number. I paid 2,900.00 from Simpson Lugers. Is this replacement barrel a huge distraction from this otherwise excellent pistol? Was it perhaps originally a 30 cal and converted to 9mm? How badly was I taken advantsgere ofin this purchase?

Lyn Islaub · 08-06-2020, 05:20 PM

Technically the S/42 marked barrel is a war time replacement, as most Armorer replacement barrels of this period were were marked either S/42, or just 42. To many this would detract in value and some might go to the extreme of qualifying it as a "shooter". Personally, because it is a war time replacement, it adds to the authenticity and the fact that the pistol didn't sit in a drawer during the entire conflict. In my humble opinion, Simpson should have noted the barrel change in their description. Still, it sounds like a nice pistol and you should provide the membership with some photos.
Lyn

Yakman · 08-06-2020, 11:36 PM

JamesCollier, Are you sure you're not a victim of your own inexperience? I've known Simpson for 38 years and i don't think "taking" customers is part of his business strategy. He offers a 3 day inspection period, did you not notice the barrel during that time? Gets back to inexperience.

Before I'd put Simpson down I'd ask on this site and Jan Stiil's if anyone has seen this on a banner before. Banners can have some oddities.

I had a 1939 Banner a number of years ago, s/n #34w, that had an Eagle/6 Simson stamp struck plainly on the side plate along with the 34. I was sure it was a replacement. I searched and found a side plate with a 34 on it and replaced the E/6 one on the gun, thinking how lucky I was. Fortunately, I saved the E/6 plate because I later read that although unusual, E/6 stamped parts did appear on some Banners. I still have that 34 marked side plate I incorrectly used to replace the E/6 plate. That was over forty years ago. I still don't think anyone has satisfactorily explained how Simson marked parts got onto Mauser Banners. At least an s/42 barrel is Mauser made.

Jack

Vlim · 08-07-2020, 07:01 AM

Mauser had a habit of reusing available military contract odds and ends to build pistols for commercial orders during the war. So it is not surprising to see all sorts of variations in parts and configurations. There are too many, good quality, banner anomalies around to support this. The pistol was most likely built or rebuilt after 1942. The chamber date can be misleading as it only served a purpose on military contract P08s as well as on some other contracts. But they would have not discarded perfectly good dated receivers after the year with which they were marked ended.

Any chance to see some photos of the pistol?

The barrel is probably marked 8,81 and not 8,31.

Yakman · 08-07-2020, 11:19 AM

Vlim, your explanation is about as satisfactory as I have heard for Banner anomalies Thanks.

Jack

JamesCollier · 08-09-2020, 11:38 PM

Bob Simpson answered my e-mail with the following information on my S/42 marked barrel. "Your Banner 5287x was originally made with the s/42 barrel marking and no serial number. It is estimated that 66 guns were made this way and only two have been noted. It is a rare variation. Please see attached copies of Hallock's Mauser book." The copies were somewhat cut off in transmission. They were page 299 and another page. Both pages had tables listing information. The text also refrenced Table 19.10, but was not included. These pages came from Chapter 19. Can anyone take a cell phone photo of these and any other pages that pertain to this gun and either text or email them to me? I can not lay my hands on a copy of the book.

Edward Tinker · 08-10-2020, 01:00 AM

I moved this to the commercial area of this forum, as the technical feedback area was incorrect.

Perhaps someone can post the information here - but why don't you write Bob and tell him some pages did not come through?

SteveM · 08-12-2020, 08:14 AM

Banners are like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get.

JamesCollier · 08-12-2020, 08:23 PM

Can anyone recommend ammo that will likely function in Lugers?

G.T. · 08-12-2020, 09:23 PM

Hi James, WW white box target / range 115 gr. ball will work flawlessly in a fine condition 9MM Luger... and, PPU .30 / 7.65 Luger will work in the .30 caliber Lugers, on par with the WW .30 Luger ammo of old?.... best, til....lat'r....GT

BTW, other excellent 9MM choices, Federal 124 grain, PMC 115 or 124 grain, work well.....

08-06-2020, 04:05 PM	#1
JamesCollier New User Join Date: Aug 2020 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Banner Mauser Rebarrel Last year I bought a 1940 police issue Bnner Mauser Luger. The gun is in beautiful, untouched condition, all matching, including the magazine, except for the barrel. It now wears a S/42 barrel marked 8.31with no serial number. I paid 2,900.00 from Simpson Lugers. Is this replacement barrel a huge distraction from this otherwise excellent pistol? Was it perhaps originally a 30 cal and converted to 9mm? How badly was I taken advantsgere ofin this purchase?

08-12-2020, 09:23 PM	#10
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,485 Thanks: 1,283 Thanked 3,581 Times in 989 Posts	ammo Hi James, WW white box target / range 115 gr. ball will work flawlessly in a fine condition 9MM Luger... and, PPU .30 / 7.65 Luger will work in the .30 caliber Lugers, on par with the WW .30 Luger ammo of old?.... best, til....lat'r....GT BTW, other excellent 9MM choices, Federal 124 grain, PMC 115 or 124 grain, work well.....

08-06-2020, 05:20 PM	#2
Lyn Islaub Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 435 Thanks: 3 Thanked 152 Times in 72 Posts	Technically the S/42 marked barrel is a war time replacement, as most Armorer replacement barrels of this period were were marked either S/42, or just 42. To many this would detract in value and some might go to the extreme of qualifying it as a "shooter". Personally, because it is a war time replacement, it adds to the authenticity and the fact that the pistol didn't sit in a drawer during the entire conflict. In my humble opinion, Simpson should have noted the barrel change in their description. Still, it sounds like a nice pistol and you should provide the membership with some photos. Lyn

08-06-2020, 11:36 PM	#3
Yakman User Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Indiana Posts: 119 Thanks: 878 Thanked 81 Times in 40 Posts	JamesCollier, Are you sure you're not a victim of your own inexperience? I've known Simpson for 38 years and i don't think "taking" customers is part of his business strategy. He offers a 3 day inspection period, did you not notice the barrel during that time? Gets back to inexperience. Before I'd put Simpson down I'd ask on this site and Jan Stiil's if anyone has seen this on a banner before. Banners can have some oddities. I had a 1939 Banner a number of years ago, s/n #34w, that had an Eagle/6 Simson stamp struck plainly on the side plate along with the 34. I was sure it was a replacement. I searched and found a side plate with a 34 on it and replaced the E/6 one on the gun, thinking how lucky I was. Fortunately, I saved the E/6 plate because I later read that although unusual, E/6 stamped parts did appear on some Banners. I still have that 34 marked side plate I incorrectly used to replace the E/6 plate. That was over forty years ago. I still don't think anyone has satisfactorily explained how Simson marked parts got onto Mauser Banners. At least an s/42 barrel is Mauser made. Jack

08-07-2020, 07:01 AM	#4
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,032 Thanks: 1,018 Thanked 3,873 Times in 1,184 Posts	Mauser had a habit of reusing available military contract odds and ends to build pistols for commercial orders during the war. So it is not surprising to see all sorts of variations in parts and configurations. There are too many, good quality, banner anomalies around to support this. The pistol was most likely built or rebuilt after 1942. The chamber date can be misleading as it only served a purpose on military contract P08s as well as on some other contracts. But they would have not discarded perfectly good dated receivers after the year with which they were marked ended. Any chance to see some photos of the pistol? The barrel is probably marked 8,81 and not 8,31.

08-07-2020, 11:19 AM	#5
Yakman User Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Indiana Posts: 119 Thanks: 878 Thanked 81 Times in 40 Posts	Vlim, your explanation is about as satisfactory as I have heard for Banner anomalies Thanks. Jack

08-09-2020, 11:38 PM	#6
JamesCollier New User Join Date: Aug 2020 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Bob Simpson answered my e-mail with the following information on my S/42 marked barrel. "Your Banner 5287x was originally made with the s/42 barrel marking and no serial number. It is estimated that 66 guns were made this way and only two have been noted. It is a rare variation. Please see attached copies of Hallock's Mauser book." The copies were somewhat cut off in transmission. They were page 299 and another page. Both pages had tables listing information. The text also refrenced Table 19.10, but was not included. These pages came from Chapter 19. Can anyone take a cell phone photo of these and any other pages that pertain to this gun and either text or email them to me? I can not lay my hands on a copy of the book.

08-10-2020, 01:00 AM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	I moved this to the commercial area of this forum, as the technical feedback area was incorrect. Perhaps someone can post the information here - but why don't you write Bob and tell him some pages did not come through?

08-12-2020, 08:14 AM	#8
SteveM User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,016 Thanks: 94 Thanked 275 Times in 137 Posts	Banners are like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get.

08-12-2020, 08:23 PM	#9
JamesCollier New User Join Date: Aug 2020 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Can anyone recommend ammo that will likely function in Lugers?