Barrel Proof Help?

Ron Smith · 05-07-2004, 10:58 AM

This is the barrel proof on my 1921/1920 re-work. The only reference I have is Lugers at Random. It's not shown. Does anyone know what it is? And what the complete proof looks like? Thanks! Ron

policeluger · 05-07-2004, 11:27 AM

Are the letters E/AYA4 ?....Simson rework proof mark

John Sabato · 05-07-2004, 11:57 AM

This is only a guess because I don't have time to research the answer, but I believe that this mark is a commercial barrel proof that is found on pistols that were reworked under contract by civilian businesses like VONO and ANSCHUTZ...

Someone who has Jan Still's Reference Books in their library can probably research this pretty quickly...

Ron Smith · 05-07-2004, 12:07 PM

The only letter I can decipher, is the A. Don't have a clue otherwise. Jan Still just told me it's a proof found mostly on "1920-21 alphabet" Lugers. He did'nt go into futher detail. Still interested in what it looks like in complete form.
There does appear to be the leading edge of a 4, following the A.

Thanks! Ron

Vlim · 05-07-2004, 01:04 PM

Hi,

It's most probably a provisionary early Weimar proof, just filling the gap between the old 'Reichseagle' proof and the new Weimar-era proofs.

policeluger · 05-07-2004, 02:35 PM

Ron, with this limited information, I would bet it is a Simpson rework, police gun.

Ron Smith · 05-07-2004, 03:31 PM

Is there any significant difference between a Simpson rework, as opposed to an Erfurt or DWM? Are they harder to find or rarer in any form? Or just another rework?

Thanks! Ron

Herb · 05-07-2004, 04:12 PM

According to Costanzo, pg 93 items 77 & 78 I think what you have here is an incomplete stamping of
E/WaA4 which is a DWM military/police proof. It is found on Lugers dated 1920 and 1921. DWM continued to stamp the 1921 chamber date to fool the Versailles Control Commission. There are two eagle styles, one with bowed wing tops and the other is more pointed. This stamping is commonly found on the barel top.

Pete Ebbink · 05-07-2004, 04:32 PM

Hi Ron,

Here is a scan of the Eagle/AYA4 Howard mentioned in his 1st. reply...this scan is from John Walter's book, "The Luger Book" on page 98.

Read paragraph "a"...

It is hard to tell from your photo what the shape of the eagle really is...looks like some of the stamping was lost during the refinish work...

Hope this is of some help...

<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/ronsmithsproof001_large.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/ronsmithsproof001_large.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

policeluger · 05-07-2004, 09:00 PM

Ron, these are reworks of DWM and Erfurts..everything looks correct and NICE! would say not rarer...just period correct.

Ron Smith · 05-09-2004, 10:00 AM

Pete, From what I can make out. It appears to be the AYA4 stamp. The oval of the eagles breast and the rounded tops of the wings match.Thanks to each of you!

Appreciate the Assist.

Ron

05-07-2004, 10:58 AM	#1
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Barrel Proof Help? This is the barrel proof on my 1921/1920 re-work. The only reference I have is Lugers at Random. It's not shown. Does anyone know what it is? And what the complete proof looks like? Thanks! Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

05-07-2004, 11:57 AM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	This is only a guess because I don't have time to research the answer, but I believe that this mark is a commercial barrel proof that is found on pistols that were reworked under contract by civilian businesses like VONO and ANSCHUTZ... Someone who has Jan Still's Reference Books in their library can probably research this pretty quickly... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

05-07-2004, 12:07 PM	#4
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	The only letter I can decipher, is the A. Don't have a clue otherwise. Jan Still just told me it's a proof found mostly on "1920-21 alphabet" Lugers. He did'nt go into futher detail. Still interested in what it looks like in complete form. There does appear to be the leading edge of a 4, following the A. Thanks! Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

05-07-2004, 03:31 PM	#7
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Is there any significant difference between a Simpson rework, as opposed to an Erfurt or DWM? Are they harder to find or rarer in any form? Or just another rework? Thanks! Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

05-07-2004, 04:12 PM	#8
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	According to Costanzo, pg 93 items 77 & 78 I think what you have here is an incomplete stamping of E/WaA4 which is a DWM military/police proof. It is found on Lugers dated 1920 and 1921. DWM continued to stamp the 1921 chamber date to fool the Versailles Control Commission. There are two eagle styles, one with bowed wing tops and the other is more pointed. This stamping is commonly found on the barel top. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

05-07-2004, 11:27 AM	#2
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Are the letters E/AYA4 ?....Simson rework proof mark

05-07-2004, 01:04 PM	#5
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,034 Thanks: 1,020 Thanked 3,882 Times in 1,186 Posts	Hi, It's most probably a provisionary early Weimar proof, just filling the gap between the old 'Reichseagle' proof and the new Weimar-era proofs.

05-07-2004, 02:35 PM	#6
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Ron, with this limited information, I would bet it is a Simpson rework, police gun.

05-07-2004, 04:32 PM	#9
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Ron, Here is a scan of the Eagle/AYA4 Howard mentioned in his 1st. reply...this scan is from John Walter's book, "The Luger Book" on page 98. Read paragraph "a"... It is hard to tell from your photo what the shape of the eagle really is...looks like some of the stamping was lost during the refinish work... Hope this is of some help... <a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/ronsmithsproof001_large.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/ronsmithsproof001_large.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

05-07-2004, 09:00 PM	#10
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Ron, these are reworks of DWM and Erfurts..everything looks correct and NICE! would say not rarer...just period correct.

05-09-2004, 10:00 AM	#11
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Pete, From what I can make out. It appears to be the AYA4 stamp. The oval of the eagles breast and the rounded tops of the wings match.Thanks to each of you! Appreciate the Assist. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...