New Guy here with Luger questions

Big Fred · 07-02-2011, 09:41 PM

Hello,
New guy here with his first Luger and got a lot of questions about what it is and isn't. It is a 9 m/m.

First off it IS mis-matched. The frame and all frame parts and toggle and toggle parts match. The toggle is stamped DWM in a fancy script. The inside of the frame is still in the white, what does this mean? The straw color on the trigger, mag catch, take down latch, and safety is very nice. The blueing is also very nice and I say it is original as all markings and numbers are crisp. All edges are not rounded and there is nothing to show it was buffed. The only strange, to me, marking is on the side of the extractor. It is marked " Geladon "??

The barrel and upper frame and parts all match but are a different number than the frame and toggle. This upper is dated 1939. And again I do not see any signs of a reblue as all the little stampings are crisp and clear. The bore is like new and the Luger shoots very well. It eats Wal-Mart Federal like a hungry little boy with a bowl of cheerrios.

Why would this Luger have a different numbered top end except for the above mentioned toggle that matches the frame and parts?

Would or could this have been done in an arsenal in Germany? Could it be a WW 1 Luger rebuilt for WW 2. Or is this just something that someone put together? If so it is NICE.

Anyway I paid $799.95 + Tax. It came with a wooden bottom mag numbered to the frame, an aluminum bottom mag numbered to nothing, the Luger tool and a really nice dark brown issue holster marked on the back : C. Weiss with something, maybe a towns name, under it. Also what I think is a Waffenamp, looks like an eagle with swastika under it. And it is dated 1938.

Overall the Luger appears to me to be not refinished, at least not buffed as some of the very small stampings are so crisp. It still retains over 90 % finish with the only wear on the high points.

Any and all help trying to figgure out this Luger is appreciated. I've always wanted a Luger to shoot and this seems like a nice one.

How bad did I do one the price paid?

Thanks in advance, Fred

Almost forgot, stamped on the lower front grip strap is what appears to be: L.Br.105.
The B could possibly be an E.

Norme · 07-02-2011, 10:20 PM

Hi Fred, Welcome to the forum. It certainly sounds like you have a gun that was assembled from two different Lugers. If it is as nice as you say, you did OK. If you can post photos of the gun and holster we can be more specific. Regards, Norm

Edward Tinker · 07-03-2011, 04:57 AM

Yes, I agree. Likely something wrong with one of the lugers and it was put together this way, or even someone sitting around the camp or something. Not likely a rearsenal, as they would not send it out with wrong numbers (too many parts around, even at the end of the war not to put on un-numbered parts and renumber them).

The price you paid was a tad bit high, not counting the holster, with the holster you did just good.

Geladen (that doesn't look right) was the word for safe or fire; it is covered in the FAQ which you can find in the new collectors forum and I think on the top of the page

Welcome to luger collecting!

Ed

sheepherder · 07-03-2011, 08:53 AM

Some (not all) Russian capture/VoPo refurbished Lugers were 'dipped' (blued without buffing) to refinish. Most carry 'X's on non-matching frame numbers, with new 'forced match' numbers stamped nearby. Mismatched parts numbers were common.

Not saying yours is a VoPo, but possible...

alanint · 07-03-2011, 11:18 AM

Just a small correction; "Geladen" actually means "Loaded", "Gesishert" means "safe".

Big Fred · 07-03-2011, 03:54 PM

Thanks For the info Guys.

I doubt mine was dipped as the inside of the frame is still in the white. Should this mean it is still
original blue?

No numbers were Xed out on any parts.

Does anyone have an idea what the front grip strap stampings mean? Again they appear to be :
L.Br.105 or the B could be an E as it was lightly struck so if it is an E it would be : L.Er.105

I wish I could do pictures, but I don't even have a digital camera.

Thanks Guys

Has anyone seen an extractor with the word "Geladon" stamped on the left side? Is this normal or common? You can only see the word if you pull up on or remove the extractor.

Ron Wood · 07-03-2011, 04:09 PM

Geladen is the normal extractor marking. I need to hit the books later to verify it, but I believe the L.Br.105 is "Landespolizei Bremen weapon #105".

sheepherder · 07-03-2011, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Fred

I wish I could do pictures, but I don't even have a digital camera.

Do you have a scanner??? Lay the pistol on the scanner with a T-shirt or towel over it & scan...

Big Fred · 07-03-2011, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

Geladen is the normal extractor marking. I need to hit the books later to verify it, but I believe the L.Br.105 is "Landespolizei Bremen weapon #105".

Ron, exactly what would that mean? Was it a police Luger originally or WW 1 issue then maybe a police Luger later? The frame and all frame parts and the toggle match and the toggle is marked DWM so from what little I think I know that means WW 1 correct?

Lugerdoc · 07-04-2011, 12:19 PM

Fred, Your PO8 shooter with the hot dipped 1939 WW2 era top on an earlier rust blued lower, may have been done by a field armourer, to make one good gun out of 2 damaged ones, but certainly not done at the depot or arsenal level. $800 with an original holster & spare orig mag, sounds like a fair retail price. TH

Big Fred · 07-04-2011, 08:27 PM

Thanks so much Guys. I'm still reading old posts and gathering as much info as my weak mind can absorb. What I think I've found out so far is that the frame and toggle started out as a DWM commercial Luger due to the fact that some of the numbers are hidden and from what I've read that is common on commercial Lugers. Were all commercial Lugers chambered in .30?

Now I wonder why it had a 1939 top put on, maybe to change the caliber to 9 m/m? If so why?

I really appreciate all the help. Thanks again.

Edward Tinker · 07-05-2011, 05:06 AM

yes and no on commercial guns

The police bought many commercial guns, some in 7.65mm and then rebarreled them later.

DWM made guns until the early 1930's when their inventory went to Mauser, so we would need to see pictures of the right, left, serial and unit marking (nice clear ones) to tell you absolutely what you have.

Ed

07-03-2011, 04:57 AM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,912 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,502 Times in 2,077 Posts	Yes, I agree. Likely something wrong with one of the lugers and it was put together this way, or even someone sitting around the camp or something. Not likely a rearsenal, as they would not send it out with wrong numbers (too many parts around, even at the end of the war not to put on un-numbered parts and renumber them). The price you paid was a tad bit high, not counting the holster, with the holster you did just good. Geladen (that doesn't look right) was the word for safe or fire; it is covered in the FAQ which you can find in the new collectors forum and I think on the top of the page Welcome to luger collecting! Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-03-2011, 08:53 AM	#4
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	Some (not all) Russian capture/VoPo refurbished Lugers were 'dipped' (blued without buffing) to refinish. Most carry 'X's on non-matching frame numbers, with new 'forced match' numbers stamped nearby. Mismatched parts numbers were common. Not saying yours is a VoPo, but possible... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

07-03-2011, 03:54 PM	#6
Big Fred New User Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Warriors Mark, PA Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks For the info Guys. I doubt mine was dipped as the inside of the frame is still in the white. Should this mean it is still original blue? No numbers were Xed out on any parts. Does anyone have an idea what the front grip strap stampings mean? Again they appear to be : L.Br.105 or the B could be an E as it was lightly struck so if it is an E it would be : L.Er.105 I wish I could do pictures, but I don't even have a digital camera. Thanks Guys Has anyone seen an extractor with the word "Geladon" stamped on the left side? Is this normal or common? You can only see the word if you pull up on or remove the extractor. Last edited by Big Fred; 07-03-2011 at 03:57 PM. Reason: added question

07-03-2011, 04:09 PM	#7
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,098 Times in 1,676 Posts	Geladen is the normal extractor marking. I need to hit the books later to verify it, but I believe the L.Br.105 is "Landespolizei Bremen weapon #105". __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-05-2011, 05:06 AM	#12
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,912 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,502 Times in 2,077 Posts	yes and no on commercial guns The police bought many commercial guns, some in 7.65mm and then rebarreled them later. DWM made guns until the early 1930's when their inventory went to Mauser, so we would need to see pictures of the right, left, serial and unit marking (nice clear ones) to tell you absolutely what you have. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-02-2011, 09:41 PM	#1
Big Fred New User Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Warriors Mark, PA Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	New Guy here with Luger questions Hello, New guy here with his first Luger and got a lot of questions about what it is and isn't. It is a 9 m/m. First off it IS mis-matched. The frame and all frame parts and toggle and toggle parts match. The toggle is stamped DWM in a fancy script. The inside of the frame is still in the white, what does this mean? The straw color on the trigger, mag catch, take down latch, and safety is very nice. The blueing is also very nice and I say it is original as all markings and numbers are crisp. All edges are not rounded and there is nothing to show it was buffed. The only strange, to me, marking is on the side of the extractor. It is marked " Geladon "?? The barrel and upper frame and parts all match but are a different number than the frame and toggle. This upper is dated 1939. And again I do not see any signs of a reblue as all the little stampings are crisp and clear. The bore is like new and the Luger shoots very well. It eats Wal-Mart Federal like a hungry little boy with a bowl of cheerrios. Why would this Luger have a different numbered top end except for the above mentioned toggle that matches the frame and parts? Would or could this have been done in an arsenal in Germany? Could it be a WW 1 Luger rebuilt for WW 2. Or is this just something that someone put together? If so it is NICE. Anyway I paid $799.95 + Tax. It came with a wooden bottom mag numbered to the frame, an aluminum bottom mag numbered to nothing, the Luger tool and a really nice dark brown issue holster marked on the back : C. Weiss with something, maybe a towns name, under it. Also what I think is a Waffenamp, looks like an eagle with swastika under it. And it is dated 1938. Overall the Luger appears to me to be not refinished, at least not buffed as some of the very small stampings are so crisp. It still retains over 90 % finish with the only wear on the high points. Any and all help trying to figgure out this Luger is appreciated. I've always wanted a Luger to shoot and this seems like a nice one. How bad did I do one the price paid? Thanks in advance, Fred Almost forgot, stamped on the lower front grip strap is what appears to be: L.Br.105. The B could possibly be an E. Last edited by Big Fred; 07-02-2011 at 09:47 PM. Reason: added information

07-02-2011, 10:20 PM	#2
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,414 Thanks: 224 Thanked 2,591 Times in 930 Posts	Hi Fred, Welcome to the forum. It certainly sounds like you have a gun that was assembled from two different Lugers. If it is as nice as you say, you did OK. If you can post photos of the gun and holster we can be more specific. Regards, Norm

07-03-2011, 11:18 AM	#5
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Just a small correction; "Geladen" actually means "Loaded", "Gesishert" means "safe".

07-04-2011, 12:19 PM	#10
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Fred, Your PO8 shooter with the hot dipped 1939 WW2 era top on an earlier rust blued lower, may have been done by a field armourer, to make one good gun out of 2 damaged ones, but certainly not done at the depot or arsenal level. $800 with an original holster & spare orig mag, sounds like a fair retail price. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

07-04-2011, 08:27 PM	#11
Big Fred New User Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Warriors Mark, PA Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks so much Guys. I'm still reading old posts and gathering as much info as my weak mind can absorb. What I think I've found out so far is that the frame and toggle started out as a DWM commercial Luger due to the fact that some of the numbers are hidden and from what I've read that is common on commercial Lugers. Were all commercial Lugers chambered in .30? Now I wonder why it had a 1939 top put on, maybe to change the caliber to 9 m/m? If so why? I really appreciate all the help. Thanks again.