What would be the best kayak pistol?

Base · 09-19-2003, 03:37 PM

Just back from a four day trip Kayak Camping near the Diablo Dam area of Washington State. Bear warnings where numerous and each campsite I stayed at was equiped with sturdy steel "Bear Boxes" to stow your food in. Unfortunately previous campers to the sites were lax about packing out food scraps and trash. I was woken several times by bears prowling the area. With storage space in a kayak being minimal I had packed the smallest center-fire handgun I owned. I carried with me a early seventies model Colt Detective Special with Federal +P rounds. And when the bears where around I felt - undergunned. So, just thought I'd ask for others opinions on what would be a better choice. The parameters would be...
1. Small to medium frame handgun. Short barrel.
2. Stainless would be best. Titanium - NOT!
3. Equiped with either a large hole in the muzzle area or having the word - MAGNUM - written somewhere in the vicinity.
4. One that would cause only a modicrum of grief when lost overboard due to operator error. (Worse case senario.)

Never having owned a Ruger (center-fire) pistol before I am considering their SP-101.

Regards,

Base

Edward Tinker · 09-19-2003, 03:47 PM

Base, I'd be more tempted to get a S&W 44 magnum with 2 1/2 barrel.

At the least a Charter Arms Bulldog. For close in like this a revolver is nice to have, and I am an auto guy, but a revolver will usually work.

A S&W 45 ACP is okay, but I'd go with a 44 Magnum, but might be smarter to use some of that pepper spray, spray it into your eyes and you don't have to watch the bear eat your legs!

Ed

AGE · 09-19-2003, 05:24 PM

Base,

I do a lot of boating on the costal waterways and rivers in FL. Local "bears" (monsters) include sharks and alligators. My boat gun is a stainless Ruger Blackhawk .44 magnum with a 4 3/4 in. barrel. I think it's a great gun, perfect condition, very accurate, paid $300 for it. As a last resort I would shoot it underwater if necessary.

Roadkill · 09-19-2003, 08:38 PM

One that keeps ending up with me on my canoe/kayak/camping trips is a Colt Trooper .357, has a 4 3/4" barrel. I took it out today and fired 100 rounds of .38 and six .357s. No bears down here but its more than powerful enough for anything I'd ever see, is very accurate, cost $250, keep in my a boat between my feet in a small tackle box that floats with other stuff I don't want to get wet on the boat floor, bring along six extra rounds of warmly loaded .38 and six of top end high power hollowpoint .357.

rk

wterrell · 09-19-2003, 10:44 PM

Get a pistol model that is not too large and has no sharp edges or corners. And no hammer spur. With smooth grips and be sure to file off the front sight. That way it will not hurt so bad when the bear shoves it up your posterior. <img border="0" alt="[crying]" title="" src="graemlins/crying.gif" />

Lugerdoc · 09-21-2003, 09:34 AM

For hunting small game you might want to consider the Charter Arms AR7 22lr rifle. When parts are packed up into stock, it will float. For a new, inexpensive, compact .44 Spl, I'd also recommend their Bulldog. TH

Robert W. Simms · 09-22-2003, 09:35 PM

I think most of the respondents may be bigger shooters than boaters. You need a weapon that can be COMPLETELY dismantled for cleaning and drying out, assuming that you did not part company with it. A Ruger SP101 would be a fine choice. However, considering the not inconsiderable risk of losing the gun, a cheaper solution would be a used stainless Ruger Service Six. They're available for about $200, can be had in .357 magnum caliber, and can be totally field stripped for cleaning/drying. Your biggest problem is how to keep the gun dry and secure while kayaking, and still have it ready for quick use. I use a small Tupperware container with vaseline smeared around the sealing surfaces. This will usually fit into a canvas military canteen cover attached to an army web belt. You do have to unsnap the canteen cover, pull out the Tupperware, and yank the lid off the container, but with practice this can be done in under 5 seconds. The Ruger Redhawk offers the same field-strippability in a .44 mag package, but the size is too big for kayaking (in my opinion). The Redhawk might also affect your buoyancy. It's a hoss.

Edward Tinker · 09-23-2003, 04:16 AM

Very well said Tac, I know you have thought about this since you have considered moving to Kanadia. Then you would instantly buy those damn ankle bells, so we would then know if you HAD been eaten by a bare, uh, bear. We'd say, oh those were Tac's colors, blue bells...

Ed

PS: <blockquote>quote:<hr />8. Lastly, don't think that because you are on four wheels you can get away - we were chased at 32 miles an hour in a Hummer by a VERY annoyed bear, and I'm not saying exactly where it was, but it begins with an A and ends with an A. <hr /></blockquote>Anastasia, it's Russian, but not a place...

Edward Tinker · 09-23-2003, 01:03 PM

and I can see that your "hair" is still standing up from the chase!

Ed

Thor · 09-23-2003, 01:21 PM

A 44 magnum for a black bear is a maybe at close range. A BIG AFRICAN rifle, or a LARGE shotgun loaded with slugs is the ONLY way I would take on a Larger Bear (Brown, Griz, Kodiak (actually same as a Brown)) Killing a bear up and close with handgun is a trick at best.

John Sabato · 09-23-2003, 01:31 PM

Ed if you can see Tac's hair stand up... YOU are the one with X-ray vision...

eh Tac?

Edward Tinker · 09-23-2003, 01:44 PM

His picture senior (is that how you spell the Spanish word, or is that a slip of the tongue?)

Ed

John Sabato · 09-23-2003, 02:17 PM

Ed, you have obviously confused "Ig", the guy in his avatar photo, with Tac... while they are longtime friends, they are not related...and don't look alike...

The one photo I have seen of Tac is not high enough resolution to publish here... but I can guarantee you that just like me, his hair doesn't ever stand up!

(Tac, this is your cue to send me a new photo in sharp focus...)

John Sabato · 09-23-2003, 05:24 PM

Bumper sticker I saw yesterday on a colleague's car:

I used to be schizophrenic...but we are okay now!

ViggoG · 09-23-2003, 09:27 PM

Gentlemen, <img border="0" alt="[blabla]" title="" src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" />
There is no question in my mind that given a ten yard head start I can stay ahead of any bear!
If you do not believe it I'll be glad to explain how and why.

ViggoG

Thor · 09-23-2003, 10:04 PM

There is a story about a hunting guide and the hunter being attacked by a bear. The guide wore tennis shoes and the hunter said, you can't out run the bear, the guide replied, I dont have to out run the bear, I just have to out run you! (old joke, I know) Ever see the movie "The Edge" excellent bear footage! Just looked up the BIO on Bart the Bear that was in this movie (now deceased) he was 9'-6" tall and weighed 1700 lbs. COWABUNGA...now dat is der big bruin!!! "OUCH....now that is going to leave a mark!"

Steve Richards · 09-25-2003, 08:36 PM

My very unprofessional choice would be one of the double-barreled 12 gauge "coach guns" that are being sold for the Cowboy shooting games. They reasons are a follows:

It is just for short range use and a side-by-side shoots two shots faster than a pump and has fewer parts to go wrong. There would not be time for a 3rd shot anyway or if there is, the bear was too far away to justify shooting it anyway.

It can be kept in a plastic bag and could be fired without removeing it from the bag if the need arose. No ejecting cases and all that.

A 12 gauge has much more stopping power than a pistol.

Just my 2 cents worth.

MG · 09-27-2003, 01:17 AM

Hmmm, Bear 9'-6": weight 1700 lbs.: Me 5'-8" 145 lbs. Handgun??? Hmmm... Me think he smoke to much loco weed... 12 gauge side-by side with slugs for bear
1911A1 for me for when I shoot bear, make bear mad,so I put ME out of misery when mad bear eats me.

Just my 1 1/2 cents worth

Edward Tinker · 09-27-2003, 01:34 AM

MG, you and me are on the same sheet of muzak, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Ed

Stevie · 09-29-2003, 12:05 AM

Don't worry about it! Get a police surplus .357 Magnum Smith@ Wesson 686 revolver(much more effective than the old stick launched spears of our ancestors). Just remember; you can always eat a bear:? or ? maybe the bear eats you( I don't remember which)? I can tell you from experience, don't cook anything in camp you are not ready to die for. Eat meager stuff, bears like good food. Live off trailmix.

09-19-2003, 03:37 PM	#1
Base User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	What would be the best kayak pistol? Just back from a four day trip Kayak Camping near the Diablo Dam area of Washington State. Bear warnings where numerous and each campsite I stayed at was equiped with sturdy steel "Bear Boxes" to stow your food in. Unfortunately previous campers to the sites were lax about packing out food scraps and trash. I was woken several times by bears prowling the area. With storage space in a kayak being minimal I had packed the smallest center-fire handgun I owned. I carried with me a early seventies model Colt Detective Special with Federal +P rounds. And when the bears where around I felt - undergunned. So, just thought I'd ask for others opinions on what would be a better choice. The parameters would be... 1. Small to medium frame handgun. Short barrel. 2. Stainless would be best. Titanium - NOT! 3. Equiped with either a large hole in the muzzle area or having the word - MAGNUM - written somewhere in the vicinity. 4. One that would cause only a modicrum of grief when lost overboard due to operator error. (Worse case senario.) Never having owned a Ruger (center-fire) pistol before I am considering their SP-101. Regards, Base

09-19-2003, 03:47 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Base, I'd be more tempted to get a S&W 44 magnum with 2 1/2 barrel. At the least a Charter Arms Bulldog. For close in like this a revolver is nice to have, and I am an auto guy, but a revolver will usually work. A S&W 45 ACP is okay, but I'd go with a 44 Magnum, but might be smarter to use some of that pepper spray, spray it into your eyes and you don't have to watch the bear eat your legs! Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-19-2003, 05:24 PM	#3
AGE User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 597 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Base, I do a lot of boating on the costal waterways and rivers in FL. Local "bears" (monsters) include sharks and alligators. My boat gun is a stainless Ruger Blackhawk .44 magnum with a 4 3/4 in. barrel. I think it's a great gun, perfect condition, very accurate, paid $300 for it. As a last resort I would shoot it underwater if necessary. __________________ Al Eggers (AGE) NRA Life Member

09-19-2003, 10:44 PM	#5
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Get a pistol model that is not too large and has no sharp edges or corners. And no hammer spur. With smooth grips and be sure to file off the front sight. That way it will not hurt so bad when the bear shoves it up your posterior. <img border="0" alt="[crying]" title="" src="graemlins/crying.gif" /> __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

09-21-2003, 09:34 AM	#6
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	For hunting small game you might want to consider the Charter Arms AR7 22lr rifle. When parts are packed up into stock, it will float. For a new, inexpensive, compact .44 Spl, I'd also recommend their Bulldog. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

09-19-2003, 08:38 PM	#4
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	One that keeps ending up with me on my canoe/kayak/camping trips is a Colt Trooper .357, has a 4 3/4" barrel. I took it out today and fired 100 rounds of .38 and six .357s. No bears down here but its more than powerful enough for anything I'd ever see, is very accurate, cost $250, keep in my a boat between my feet in a small tackle box that floats with other stuff I don't want to get wet on the boat floor, bring along six extra rounds of warmly loaded .38 and six of top end high power hollowpoint .357. rk

09-22-2003, 09:35 PM	#7
Robert W. Simms User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Mount Juliet, TN Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I think most of the respondents may be bigger shooters than boaters. You need a weapon that can be COMPLETELY dismantled for cleaning and drying out, assuming that you did not part company with it. A Ruger SP101 would be a fine choice. However, considering the not inconsiderable risk of losing the gun, a cheaper solution would be a used stainless Ruger Service Six. They're available for about $200, can be had in .357 magnum caliber, and can be totally field stripped for cleaning/drying. Your biggest problem is how to keep the gun dry and secure while kayaking, and still have it ready for quick use. I use a small Tupperware container with vaseline smeared around the sealing surfaces. This will usually fit into a canvas military canteen cover attached to an army web belt. You do have to unsnap the canteen cover, pull out the Tupperware, and yank the lid off the container, but with practice this can be done in under 5 seconds. The Ruger Redhawk offers the same field-strippability in a .44 mag package, but the size is too big for kayaking (in my opinion). The Redhawk might also affect your buoyancy. It's a hoss.

09-23-2003, 04:16 AM	#8
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Very well said Tac, I know you have thought about this since you have considered moving to Kanadia. Then you would instantly buy those damn ankle bells, so we would then know if you HAD been eaten by a bare, uh, bear. We'd say, oh those were Tac's colors, blue bells... Ed PS: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">8. Lastly, don't think that because you are on four wheels you can get away - we were chased at 32 miles an hour in a Hummer by a VERY annoyed bear, and I'm not saying exactly where it was, but it begins with an A and ends with an A. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Anastasia, it's Russian, but not a place... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-23-2003, 01:03 PM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	and I can see that your "hair" is still standing up from the chase! Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-23-2003, 01:21 PM	#10
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	A 44 magnum for a black bear is a maybe at close range. A BIG AFRICAN rifle, or a LARGE shotgun loaded with slugs is the ONLY way I would take on a Larger Bear (Brown, Griz, Kodiak (actually same as a Brown)) Killing a bear up and close with handgun is a trick at best. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

09-23-2003, 01:31 PM	#11
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Ed if you can see Tac's hair stand up... YOU are the one with X-ray vision... eh Tac? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-23-2003, 01:44 PM	#12
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	His picture senior (is that how you spell the Spanish word, or is that a slip of the tongue?) Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-23-2003, 02:17 PM	#13
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Ed, you have obviously confused "Ig", the guy in his avatar photo, with Tac... while they are longtime friends, they are not related...and don't look alike... The one photo I have seen of Tac is not high enough resolution to publish here... but I can guarantee you that just like me, his hair doesn't ever stand up! (Tac, this is your cue to send me a new photo in sharp focus...) __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-23-2003, 05:24 PM	#14
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Bumper sticker I saw yesterday on a colleague's car: *I used to be schizophrenic...but we are okay now!* __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-23-2003, 09:27 PM	#15
ViggoG RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: South Side Virginia Posts: 534 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Gentlemen, <img border="0" alt="[blabla]" title="" src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" /> There is no question in my mind that given a ten yard head start I can stay ahead of any bear! If you do not believe it I'll be glad to explain how and why. ViggoG

09-23-2003, 10:04 PM	#16
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	There is a story about a hunting guide and the hunter being attacked by a bear. The guide wore tennis shoes and the hunter said, you can't out run the bear, the guide replied, I dont have to out run the bear, I just have to out run you! (old joke, I know) Ever see the movie "The Edge" excellent bear footage! Just looked up the BIO on Bart the Bear that was in this movie (now deceased) he was 9'-6" tall and weighed 1700 lbs. COWABUNGA...now dat is der big bruin!!! "OUCH....now that is going to leave a mark!" __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

09-25-2003, 08:36 PM	#17
Steve Richards User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Beaverton, Oregon Posts: 487 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	My very unprofessional choice would be one of the double-barreled 12 gauge "coach guns" that are being sold for the Cowboy shooting games. They reasons are a follows: It is just for short range use and a side-by-side shoots two shots faster than a pump and has fewer parts to go wrong. There would not be time for a 3rd shot anyway or if there is, the bear was too far away to justify shooting it anyway. It can be kept in a plastic bag and could be fired without removeing it from the bag if the need arose. No ejecting cases and all that. A 12 gauge has much more stopping power than a pistol. Just my 2 cents worth.

09-27-2003, 01:17 AM	#18
MG User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 93 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hmmm, Bear 9'-6": weight 1700 lbs.: Me 5'-8" 145 lbs. Handgun??? Hmmm... Me think he smoke to much loco weed... 12 gauge side-by side with slugs for bear 1911A1 for me for when I shoot bear, make bear mad,so I put ME out of misery when mad bear eats me. Just my 1 1/2 cents worth __________________ MG "Si vis pacem, para bellum" 'If you want peace,prepare for war'

09-27-2003, 01:34 AM	#19
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	MG, you and me are on the same sheet of muzak, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-29-2003, 12:05 AM	#20
Stevie User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ok. Posts: 212 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Don't worry about it! Get a police surplus .357 Magnum Smith@ Wesson 686 revolver(much more effective than the old stick launched spears of our ancestors). Just remember; you can always eat a bear:? or ? maybe the bear eats you( I don't remember which)? I can tell you from experience, don't cook anything in camp you are not ready to die for. Eat meager stuff, bears like good food. Live off trailmix.