Recent California Horror story..True! - Page 3

Herb · 09-13-2003, 04:03 PM

Joe, I definitely remember the ring thing but don't remember sending for one, being born in the thirties has done something to the finer details of my memory, such as what did I have for dinner last evening, lol.

lugerholsterrepair · 09-13-2003, 04:37 PM

Wes, Well Said! I agree wholeheartedly. On occasion I have had to travel to the socialist state of Kalifonia and I also take along Col. Colts equalizer. I see you have studied the subject to some extent. I percieve it as my God given right and responsibility to provide what protection I can for myself and my Family and no law on the Planet can take that away from me but Death. I believe it was George Patton that said it was better for the other fellow to die for his country....

Joe, Good advice! I have always wondered how that little car search scenario was played out. Thanks!

Jerry Burney

colcolombo · 09-13-2003, 07:16 PM

Wes,

Let me expand a little more on that car search business. Regarding probable cause, an officer may say something like what have you got to hide if you won't let me search. Or, you must have something you don't want me to see so I am going to get a search warrant. Don't fall for this. Your refusal to consent to a search is your constitutional right and the fact that you refused DOES NOT constitute probable cause for the officer to obtain a warrant.

Let's go a step further with a persistent officer. After you have refused the search, what will be your response if he says outright, "Does your refusal have anything to do with drugs or firearms you may be carrying in this vehicle?"
By now you are probably getting a little uneasy but try to retain your composure. Now what are you going to say? He has pretty well put the ball in your park now and you are sweating that handgun in the glove box.

Something like, "Officer (or sir) you seem intent on searching my vehicle. I have refused permission. We could debate this all day. I am ready to move on. Either detain me and go get a warrant or I need to be getting on down the road."
But, you haven't answered my question about drugs or firearms! Officer, I have answered all I intend to and I don't have anything else to say.

You have no obligation under the Fifth Amendment to answer his question. He knows this but he doesn't think you do. So, if you get into a situation like this, I hope you handle it well.
At this point, most officers will back off realizing they couldn't intimidate you into consenting to the search or incriminating yourself by an admission about the weapon. Remember, your refusal to consent and your refusal to answer the drug/weapon question still DOES NOT constitute probable cause to get a search warrant. I should point out that you are probably dealing with an overzealous officer. Most would not pursue it to this point. Most are decent, underpaid officers just trying to do their job but some carry it to the extreme.
One final thought, suppose you had some pot in the car and the officer had a drug dog that "alerted" to a certain area of the car. The officer then has probable cause and can search without a warrant. But we're getting a little off subject as far as the gun in the glove box.

Good luck.

Joe

P. S. No, I am not anti-police. I am just anti-bad police.

wterrell · 09-13-2003, 10:30 PM

Here in Colorado, if the police ask you to get out of your car, you must shut the car door or you have legally invited them into your car, and anything is fair game at that point. The same with your house. If you invite an officer into your house, they then have legal right to conduct search.
Here, they also have roadblocks and will search all cars that they stop, with no regard to legality.
The police state is to be feared and kept in check. And the police do not like it. They consider themselves as 'super' citizens and conduct themselves as such.

colcolombo · 09-13-2003, 10:49 PM

Wes.

What you says is incredulous. The Constitution is as valid and real in Colorado as in any other state.
On most traffic stops, you are expected to stay IN your car unless directed to get out. In all my career I have never heard of the "open door" invitation to search.

As to inviting an officer into your house, you present a gray area. I don't understand exactly why you would invite him in in the first place.

As to roadblocks, depends on the purpose of the roadblock. If it is a routine block to check for licenses, DUI, etc., then you still have the protection against unreasonable searches. Now, if they determine that you are intoxicated, they can remove you, check for weapons on you and in your vehicle and search for alcohol to prove their case.

If this roadblock is set up to search for an escaped prisoner or wanted person, then they can look in your car and trunk. However, after determining that you have no such person in your vehicle, they can search no further. That is to say, they couldn't rifle your luggage, open your glove box or any containers in your car, the reason being that obviously no person could hide in that small a space.

I hope it doesn't get to the point that your state is referred to as Kolorado.

Joe

Edward Tinker · 09-13-2003, 11:02 PM

Joe, and to add to your comments, if an officer is invited into your house, then they can seize or confiscate, ONLY illegal items. They can not search your house or look around. On TV when they show an officer on Law And Order wandering around, they are conducting an Illegal Search.

Wes, I bet that officers "get" away with some tactics, because a large lawsuit has not been pressed. Search and Seizure have been to the Supreme Court on many occassions, Police Officers may only do so much, then thye are liable, as is the PD.

Ed

lugerholsterrepair · 09-13-2003, 11:06 PM

Excellent discussion Gentlemen, I do appreciate all of your thoughts and experience. While I do not to my knowledge or consent transport either illegal drugs nor convicted and escaped felons I do always carry a firearm for the protection of myself and my Family.

I really thought Wes put it eloquently and accurately in a previous post. It is our responsibility to determine what is right for ourselves regardless of what laws are passed.. How was it put...I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.....

Thanks Joe and Wes...This makes for good reading for all members. Jerry Burney

unspellable · 09-16-2003, 08:34 AM

This is not the first time this sort of thing has happened. I recall a semi ending up rolled in a ditch in New Jersey. (A place I will not go since they regard me as a felon for owning a holow point 9 mm catridge.) The luggage compartment on the tractor came open and dumped the driver's shotgun in the ditch. The "authorities" carted him off. It was abuses of this sort that inspired the Firearms Owner's Protection Act, the federal law allowing transport through such places. Since then I've heard of local law enforcement regarding stopping for lunch at a resturant as "stopping" and not "traveling".

JR. · 09-21-2003, 06:03 PM

Latest report! The young serviceman has, with the aid of the military, recovered all his pistols, and all of his CA. legal long guns... The following weapons were not recoverable and listed as contraband.... 1)a pre-ban AR-15, 2)a Spaas 12 Ga. shotgun type weapon? 3)a pre-ban L1A1 4)a .50 cal bolt action single shot rifle 5) a shot gun with a folding stock 6) pre-ban AK-47 7) SKS
He has hired lawyer, but feels they are gone for good... also all his high capasity mags were also taken..... thats it for now! till....later....GT

Edward Tinker · 09-21-2003, 07:44 PM

Well better then nothing...

But, a legal wrangle might net him some money in return?

Ed

policeluger · 09-21-2003, 07:50 PM

This is some good news, but you heard it here first, his Colt AR is most likely gone, you did not state that there were AK, Spas and L1A1, and dreaded hi cap mags. I am held and employment prisoner of Kalifornia, for all non-residents be warned, this is not a firearm understanding state. Note I said "understanding", found with such item you are guilty of something, it just takes the law a while too figure out what you are guilty of. I wished I could help this young man, please keep us posted. As for the police officers on the accident, they where in all probability just doing there job, or would be a personal risk for letting him go with banned items.

AGE · 09-21-2003, 10:58 PM

Nevertheless, he could legally (per federal law) transport these Kalafornia illegal guns through the state. Call the NRA.

policeluger · 09-21-2003, 11:55 PM

While I do agree with you AGE, if Federal law really matters here, why did the Kalifornia city/county police keep the guns and hi cap mags, will it take a dream team of lawyers too get his guns back?. Believe it or not we even have a gun shop here that does not belong to or even support in the least, the NRA....and he is doing a thriving business. I believe years ago the NRA wrote off this state, and it members.

Barry Briscoe · 09-22-2003, 12:24 AM

Although you might be ignored by the CA law enforcement and BATFE,it seems that since the BATFE is supposed to enforce the 1986 FOPA law that maybe the BATFE could pressure the CA officials to return the so called "illegal" ones.

Seizure of property without a receipt giving a legal reason for seizure amounts to theft even if they are now admitting to having seized the rifles as contraband.

Try the Department of Justice if the BATFE stonewalls.

Maybe a civil rights lawsuit would get their attention if the state and federal government wish to disregard the law.

The judicial system and law enforcement officers say ignorance of the law is no excuse,but it is disgusting when knowledgeable law enforcement and the judical system are the ones disregarding the laws passed by Congress to protect citizens from abuse.

AGE · 09-22-2003, 07:52 AM

Policeluger,

I don't think the NRA has written off Kalifornia members or injustice to its citizens. I gotta pack up the computer to travel mow. I'll try to post some more NRA references later in the week.

In the meantime, would someone close to this (who knows names, places, dates and the individual involved) please try to contact the NRA through the number I posted above? This problem should attract nationwide attention. Thanks.

colcolombo · 09-24-2003, 01:38 AM

From the NRA-ILA web site:

FEDERAL LAW ON TRANSPORTATION OF FIREARMS

A provision of federal law serves as a defense to state or local laws which would prohibit the passage of persons with firearms in interstate travel.

Notwithstanding any state or local law, a person shall be entitled to transport a firearm from any place where he may lawfully possess and transport such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and transport such firearm if the firearm is unloaded and in the trunk. In vehicles without a trunk, the unloaded firearm shall be in a locked container other then the glove compartment or console. Necessary stops, e.g., gasoline and rest, seem permissible.

JR. · 09-24-2003, 09:19 AM

Hi to all! Just a quick not, since my last post, he has recovered his .50 cal bolt rifle, and his folding stocked shotgun, along with all his clips and ammo, The weapons that remain unrecoverable are all his weapons that will accept a high capasity mag.(5 or 6) most sadly his pre-ban AR-15, it seems that there is some tug between right and wrong even in CA, as it turns out the military had little pull in the release of the weapons, and the "legal" weapons were released by law enforcement agencies directly to him, sympathitic to his situation....I don't know if he has an attourney yet or not.. but that was the plan.... I will see if I can find out more...till...later...GT

Edward Tinker · 09-24-2003, 11:02 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />and the "legal" weapons were released by law enforcement agencies directly to him, sympathitic to his situation...<hr /></blockquote>Nice to hear GT, the VAST majority of cops out there are nice guys, willing to do the best they can legally, besides, many are former military and understand the hardships involved.

I imgaine they got him back what they could without getting into major doo themselves, so that is good to hear.

Ed

JR. · 09-24-2003, 12:03 PM

Hi Ed! Thats the way I see it too... I think, and as it seems, they (most of the CA law enforcement people) are sympathatic to most accidental situations...I will keep you posted as this thing devolopes! Thanks to all for their input & ideas... till...later...GT

colcolombo · 09-24-2003, 12:18 PM

JR

The news is getting better by the day. Quoting from my post above, "A provision of federal law
serves as a defense............". Seems to me that with the help of an attorney, he could use that federal law to recover ALL that was lost. Of course, he would have to take it to Federal Court and those courts are pretty flaky in Ka.
However, if it is there in black and white, I don't see where they have any choice.

With the help of the NRA, I believe he can prevail. I would be more than willing to make a contribution to his legal costs.

Good luck and tell him to hang in there. As I said earlier, I believe it would make a great feature article in the NRA magazines and would serve to help him as well as to warn other transients of the inherent danger of the Kalifornia Kops.

Good luck,

JH

09-13-2003, 04:03 PM	#41
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Joe, I definitely remember the ring thing but don't remember sending for one, being born in the thirties has done something to the finer details of my memory, such as what did I have for dinner last evening, lol. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

09-13-2003, 04:37 PM	#42
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Wes, Well Said! I agree wholeheartedly. On occasion I have had to travel to the socialist state of Kalifonia and I also take along Col. Colts equalizer. I see you have studied the subject to some extent. I percieve it as my God given right and responsibility to provide what protection I can for myself and my Family and no law on the Planet can take that away from me but Death. I believe it was George Patton that said it was better for the other fellow to die for his country.... Joe, Good advice! I have always wondered how that little car search scenario was played out. Thanks! Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

09-13-2003, 10:30 PM	#44
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Here in Colorado, if the police ask you to get out of your car, you must shut the car door or you have legally invited them into your car, and anything is fair game at that point. The same with your house. If you invite an officer into your house, they then have legal right to conduct search. Here, they also have roadblocks and will search all cars that they stop, with no regard to legality. The police state is to be feared and kept in check. And the police do not like it. They consider themselves as 'super' citizens and conduct themselves as such. __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

09-13-2003, 11:02 PM	#46
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Joe, and to add to your comments, if an officer is invited into your house, then they can seize or confiscate, ONLY illegal items. They can not search your house or look around. On TV when they show an officer on Law And Order wandering around, they are conducting an Illegal Search. Wes, I bet that officers "get" away with some tactics, because a large lawsuit has not been pressed. Search and Seizure have been to the Supreme Court on many occassions, Police Officers may only do so much, then thye are liable, as is the PD. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-13-2003, 11:06 PM	#47
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Excellent discussion Gentlemen, I do appreciate all of your thoughts and experience. While I do not to my knowledge or consent transport either illegal drugs nor convicted and escaped felons I do always carry a firearm for the protection of myself and my Family. I really thought Wes put it eloquently and accurately in a previous post. It is our responsibility to determine what is right for ourselves regardless of what laws are passed.. How was it put...I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6..... Thanks Joe and Wes...This makes for good reading for all members. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

09-13-2003, 07:16 PM	#43
colcolombo User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Kentucky Posts: 75 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Wes, Let me expand a little more on that car search business. Regarding probable cause, an officer may say something like what have you got to hide if you won't let me search. Or, you must have something you don't want me to see so I am going to get a search warrant. Don't fall for this. Your refusal to consent to a search is your constitutional right and the fact that you refused DOES NOT constitute probable cause for the officer to obtain a warrant. Let's go a step further with a persistent officer. After you have refused the search, what will be your response if he says outright, "Does your refusal have anything to do with drugs or firearms you may be carrying in this vehicle?" By now you are probably getting a little uneasy but try to retain your composure. Now what are you going to say? He has pretty well put the ball in your park now and you are sweating that handgun in the glove box. Something like, "Officer (or sir) you seem intent on searching my vehicle. I have refused permission. We could debate this all day. I am ready to move on. Either detain me and go get a warrant or I need to be getting on down the road." But, you haven't answered my question about drugs or firearms! Officer, I have answered all I intend to and I don't have anything else to say. You have no obligation under the Fifth Amendment to answer his question. He knows this but he doesn't think you do. So, if you get into a situation like this, I hope you handle it well. At this point, most officers will back off realizing they couldn't intimidate you into consenting to the search or incriminating yourself by an admission about the weapon. Remember, your refusal to consent and your refusal to answer the drug/weapon question still DOES NOT constitute probable cause to get a search warrant. I should point out that you are probably dealing with an overzealous officer. Most would not pursue it to this point. Most are decent, underpaid officers just trying to do their job but some carry it to the extreme. One final thought, suppose you had some pot in the car and the officer had a drug dog that "alerted" to a certain area of the car. The officer then has probable cause and can search without a warrant. But we're getting a little off subject as far as the gun in the glove box. Good luck. Joe P. S. No, I am not anti-police. I am just anti-bad police.

09-13-2003, 10:49 PM	#45
colcolombo User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Kentucky Posts: 75 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Wes. What you says is incredulous. The Constitution is as valid and real in Colorado as in any other state. On most traffic stops, you are expected to stay IN your car unless directed to get out. In all my career I have never heard of the "open door" invitation to search. As to inviting an officer into your house, you present a gray area. I don't understand exactly why you would invite him in in the first place. As to roadblocks, depends on the purpose of the roadblock. If it is a routine block to check for licenses, DUI, etc., then you still have the protection against unreasonable searches. Now, if they determine that you are intoxicated, they can remove you, check for weapons on you and in your vehicle and search for alcohol to prove their case. If this roadblock is set up to search for an escaped prisoner or wanted person, then they can look in your car and trunk. However, after determining that you have no such person in your vehicle, they can search no further. That is to say, they couldn't rifle your luggage, open your glove box or any containers in your car, the reason being that obviously no person could hide in that small a space. I hope it doesn't get to the point that your state is referred to as Kolorado. Joe

09-16-2003, 08:34 AM	#48
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 10 Posts	This is not the first time this sort of thing has happened. I recall a semi ending up rolled in a ditch in New Jersey. (A place I will not go since they regard me as a felon for owning a holow point 9 mm catridge.) The luggage compartment on the tractor came open and dumped the driver's shotgun in the ditch. The "authorities" carted him off. It was abuses of this sort that inspired the Firearms Owner's Protection Act, the federal law allowing transport through such places. Since then I've heard of local law enforcement regarding stopping for lunch at a resturant as "stopping" and not "traveling".

09-21-2003, 06:03 PM	#49
JR. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Latest report! The young serviceman has, with the aid of the military, recovered all his pistols, and all of his CA. legal long guns... The following weapons were not recoverable and listed as contraband.... 1)a pre-ban AR-15, 2)a Spaas 12 Ga. shotgun type weapon? 3)a pre-ban L1A1 4)a .50 cal bolt action single shot rifle 5) a shot gun with a folding stock 6) pre-ban AK-47 7) SKS He has hired lawyer, but feels they are gone for good... also all his high capasity mags were also taken..... thats it for now! till....later....GT

09-21-2003, 07:44 PM	#50
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Well better then nothing... But, a legal wrangle might net him some money in return? Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-21-2003, 07:50 PM	#51
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	This is some good news, but you heard it here first, his Colt AR is most likely gone, you did not state that there were AK, Spas and L1A1, and dreaded hi cap mags. I am held and employment prisoner of Kalifornia, for all non-residents be warned, this is not a firearm understanding state. Note I said "understanding", found with such item you are guilty of something, it just takes the law a while too figure out what you are guilty of. I wished I could help this young man, please keep us posted. As for the police officers on the accident, they where in all probability just doing there job, or would be a personal risk for letting him go with banned items.

09-21-2003, 10:58 PM	#52
AGE User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 597 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Nevertheless, he could legally (per federal law) transport these Kalafornia illegal guns through the state. Call the NRA. __________________ Al Eggers (AGE) NRA Life Member

09-21-2003, 11:55 PM	#53
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	While I do agree with you AGE, if Federal law really matters here, why did the Kalifornia city/county police keep the guns and hi cap mags, will it take a dream team of lawyers too get his guns back?. Believe it or not we even have a gun shop here that does not belong to or even support in the least, the NRA....and he is doing a thriving business. I believe years ago the NRA wrote off this state, and it members.

09-22-2003, 12:24 AM	#54
Barry Briscoe User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 29 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Although you might be ignored by the CA law enforcement and BATFE,it seems that since the BATFE is supposed to enforce the 1986 FOPA law that maybe the BATFE could pressure the CA officials to return the so called "illegal" ones. Seizure of property without a receipt giving a legal reason for seizure amounts to theft even if they are now admitting to having seized the rifles as contraband. Try the Department of Justice if the BATFE stonewalls. Maybe a civil rights lawsuit would get their attention if the state and federal government wish to disregard the law. The judicial system and law enforcement officers say ignorance of the law is no excuse,but it is disgusting when knowledgeable law enforcement and the judical system are the ones disregarding the laws passed by Congress to protect citizens from abuse.

09-22-2003, 07:52 AM	#55
AGE User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 597 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Policeluger, I don't think the NRA has written off Kalifornia members or injustice to its citizens. I gotta pack up the computer to travel mow. I'll try to post some more NRA references later in the week. In the meantime, would someone close to this (who knows names, places, dates and the individual involved) please try to contact the NRA through the number I posted above? This problem should attract nationwide attention. Thanks. __________________ Al Eggers (AGE) NRA Life Member

09-24-2003, 01:38 AM	#56
colcolombo User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Kentucky Posts: 75 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	From the NRA-ILA web site: FEDERAL LAW ON TRANSPORTATION OF FIREARMS A provision of federal law serves as a defense to state or local laws which would prohibit the passage of persons with firearms in interstate travel. Notwithstanding any state or local law, a person shall be entitled to transport a firearm from any place where he may lawfully possess and transport such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and transport such firearm if the firearm is unloaded and in the trunk. In vehicles without a trunk, the unloaded firearm shall be in a locked container other then the glove compartment or console. Necessary stops, e.g., gasoline and rest, seem permissible.

09-24-2003, 09:19 AM	#57
JR. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi to all! Just a quick not, since my last post, he has recovered his .50 cal bolt rifle, and his folding stocked shotgun, along with all his clips and ammo, The weapons that remain unrecoverable are all his weapons that will accept a high capasity mag.(5 or 6) most sadly his pre-ban AR-15, it seems that there is some tug between right and wrong even in CA, as it turns out the military had little pull in the release of the weapons, and the "legal" weapons were released by law enforcement agencies directly to him, sympathitic to his situation....I don't know if he has an attourney yet or not.. but that was the plan.... I will see if I can find out more...till...later...GT

09-24-2003, 11:02 AM	#58
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">and the "legal" weapons were released by law enforcement agencies directly to him, sympathitic to his situation...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Nice to hear GT, the VAST majority of cops out there are nice guys, willing to do the best they can legally, besides, many are former military and understand the hardships involved. I imgaine they got him back what they could without getting into major doo themselves, so that is good to hear. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-24-2003, 12:03 PM	#59
JR. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Ed! Thats the way I see it too... I think, and as it seems, they (most of the CA law enforcement people) are sympathatic to most accidental situations...I will keep you posted as this thing devolopes! Thanks to all for their input & ideas... till...later...GT

09-24-2003, 12:18 PM	#60
colcolombo User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Kentucky Posts: 75 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	JR The news is getting better by the day. Quoting from my post above, "A provision of federal law serves as a defense............". Seems to me that with the help of an attorney, he could use that federal law to recover ALL that was lost. Of course, he would have to take it to Federal Court and those courts are pretty flaky in Ka. However, if it is there in black and white, I don't see where they have any choice. With the help of the NRA, I believe he can prevail. I would be more than willing to make a contribution to his legal costs. Good luck and tell him to hang in there. As I said earlier, I believe it would make a great feature article in the NRA magazines and would serve to help him as well as to warn other transients of the inherent danger of the Kalifornia Kops. Good luck, JH