Jan Still booted from forum?! - Page 2

Orv Reichert · 07-20-2002, 11:42 PM

This is the law:
. The purpose of fighting is to win.
. There is no possible victory in defense.
. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either.
. The final weapon is the brain.
. All else is supplemental.
- John Steinbeck

Doubs · 07-21-2002, 12:13 AM

RK, that's a GREAT story! Your brother and his family will hopefully never have to deal with home invaders or bad people intent on taking what they have.

AGE · 07-21-2002, 12:24 AM

Wes,

Always keep at least one or two magazines full for your 1911 for unscheduled serious social events.

Shoot everything else if you want to and then buy more on the way home from the range (boy my closet is getting full).

Jan C Still · 07-21-2002, 02:03 AM

Wes
I was wrong, sorry that I misled you. After reading John D. comments yesterday, I considered myself booted off. Even my thick hide has its limits. However, looking at the Forum this evening it appears that I have not actually been booted. There is some support from the membership for Brad and I remaining on the Forum. However, its all up to the owner (John D.). In any case, I am very supportive of a Luger collectors association.
Jan C. Still

Garfield · 07-21-2002, 03:54 AM

Mr. Still:

With all due respect, you write good books and you say good things, but now you are starting to sound like a "whiner". There are already too many here. If you want to stick, IMHO, I would suggest that you check your backbone.

Best Regards and Good Hunting,

Garfield

Roadkill · 07-21-2002, 10:55 AM

Since when is John D. a benevolent dictator with the ultimate power of imminent banishment over the peasants? I've been out of line, (Surprise?), and have rec'd polite suggestions from forum members to quit being stupid, but have never had the perception that there is an ever present threat from John D. or anyone else of censure & banishment over anything. I've rec'd much more heat from forum members than the owners of the site. I've always viewed the forum administrators as Luger enthusiasts with the dedication to take the time and trouble to allow this forum to exist in spite of unnecessary problems caused by misguided miscreants such as myself and a specific thankfully few spiteful biased personally vindictive folks with a personal vendetta which I don't care about and don't wish to know. If there is a Damocles sword above my head hanging by a hair I wasn't aware of it. Let me hear a diesel engine start, I get nervous. That's something else.

RK

Jan C Still · 07-21-2002, 11:27 AM

Garfield
You misread my post. I apologized to Wes for telling him that I had been booted, when in fact I had not (my mistake). As previously stated, I stand by all that I have posted on this forum without apologies.
Jan C. Still <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />

Don · 07-21-2002, 05:21 PM

Just for the record, I'm a Democrat (at least I vote for more Democrats that Republicans), and I'm armed to the teeth! Maybe it has something to do with being a Texan?

Jan C Still · 07-21-2002, 07:13 PM

Wes, Roadkill, Doubts, and Don
My home defense weapon is an old reliable S&W .41 Mag. Last night my daughter yelled that a bear is at the door. I grabbed my S&W (in case the bear tried to get in) ran to the door but the bear ran off.
Jan

wterrell · 07-21-2002, 07:18 PM

The bears that we have are not quite as mean tempered as an Alaska grizzly (we have black bears). We have had a couple in the yard this year, but not at the door. They most usually are nosing around the racing pigeon loft. But just in case, I keep a S&W .44 mag for them to chew on should they come in the front door.

Roadkill · 07-21-2002, 07:49 PM

Talk about a coincidence. I had mentioned earlier that I am the recipient of a complete set of loading equipment, there is a set of .41 mag dies included. I studied them for a few minutes, I know nothing about this caliber, however if a person with your firearms experience deems it adequate for the use for which you have reserved, it must be substantial. Would you be so kind to inform?

Repectfully

RK

Jan C Still · 07-21-2002, 08:43 PM

Roadkill
My firearms experience is limited to collecting, not shooting. However, I have had a little experience with the .41 and .44 mag.

The .41 Mag is slightly less powerful than the .44 Mag. Its more than adequate for black bear. I killed one that invaded camp with a single shot several years ago. Brown/grizzly bear can be difficult to kill even with a .375 H&H.

The work I do during the summer is often in brown/grizzly bear habitat and a rifle is impractical to carry, so I carry a .41 mag for brown bear protection. Its doubtful if a .41 mag would do an adequate job on a determined grizzly, but it makes you feel safer. It is of note that last Summer a young woman geologist, (whose training with a .44 mag included shooting from the hip) dropped a charging grizzly with a single hip shot from a .44 mag. It dropped 5 feet from her.
Jan

Ron Wood · 07-21-2002, 10:25 PM

Reminds me of a question and answer article I read in a hunting magazine years ago. It seems that a gentleman was considering hunting grizzly bears with a .44 Magnum and asked for any suggestions as to make and model to purchase. The editor responded that most any brand would do equally as well, but the first thing to do after purchase was to file off the front sight - that way it wouldn't hurt as much when the bear shoved it up..... [img]eek.gif[/img]

unspellable · 07-21-2002, 11:43 PM

Years ago I lived in a place where there was an understandably small fad for shooting bears with a small handgun. The idea was to more or less stick the gun down the bear's gullet. You were supposed to have a reliable back up man armed with heavy artillery, but even so, I was never tempted...

AGE · 07-22-2002, 12:13 AM

Just shooting a .44 magnum is impressive, the recoil will result in you wacking yourself on the head with the front sight if you aren't ready. Also, if its a SA and the grips have any checkering it will shred you hand like a cabbage shredder. And your hearing (if unprotected) will never be the same. However, for self defense in bear country it sure beats a table leg or piece of firewood if you can handle the gun. Obviously, a heavy rifle would be better for the job, but a rifle is a pain to put up with and keep handy if you are doing something besides hunting.

Learn to handle it and a .44 magnum is a wonderful piece.

Edward Tinker · 07-22-2002, 12:30 AM

Jan and RK, I happen to remember about the .44 and .41, although before my time. The .44 was essentially desinged by Keith and is a heck of a gun, was designed as a hunting cartridge. The .41 was designed as a police caliber, but never caught on. It was to replace the 357 as a man-stopper, but no dice to many Police Departments, who had tons of .38 to use and were used to them.

Anyway, both are excellent, but loading them hotter than hades is silly. They are plenty hot in factory / reloading specs!

G.W. Gill · 07-22-2002, 12:59 AM

Hi Guys, you were talking about .44 mag. Would a short barrel (1.5 inches) have adequate stopping power for self defence?. I have an American Derringer .44 Mag, and that is about the length of barrel left after you load it. It's not unpleasant to shoot. It sounds real powerful. I was just wondering if maybe I was losing a significant amount of energy even with medium loads. Thanks. G.W.

Lugers down under · 07-22-2002, 04:50 AM

Recently, while driving accross our Island I was attacked in my Misubishi 4x4 by a huge wild Boar.
(we call them Captain Cooker's as they were originally released here by Capt Cook.)
We caught this critter with two dogs and a knife and boy! was he wild. He got his tusks into my back tire and dented the van but! not a .44 in sight, not even a Luger. They never seem to be there when you want one.
The Boar weighed 303 lbs "gutted". Tusks were around 8 inchs long. Hows that for a pig!
Murray
Great Barrier Island

unspellable · 07-22-2002, 08:35 AM

Murray,

We want more details on how you got this pig with two dogs and a knife!

John Sabato · 07-22-2002, 10:37 AM

Jan,

Contrary to response you received by the member whose is called "Garfield", I am sure I am not alone on this forum when I say that it takes a heck of a backbone to admit to the world that you made a mistake...of any kind!

Although I must admit that philosphically I agree with John D. about most that has transpired here... I want you to publicly make you aware that I'm glad you are part of this forum... as I am sure that he is, and I extend the same warm welcome for you to remain here as I extended when you first posted...

I only request that you try to maintain your focus on a bigger picture instead of being being sidetracked on a just couple of issues...

07-20-2002, 11:42 PM	#21
Orv Reichert RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SW Washington State Posts: 339 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	This is the law: . The purpose of fighting is to win. . There is no possible victory in defense. . The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. . The final weapon is the brain. . All else is supplemental. - John Steinbeck __________________ ORVEL L. "ORV" REICHERT

07-21-2002, 12:24 AM	#23
AGE User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 597 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Wes, Always keep at least one or two magazines full for your 1911 for unscheduled serious social events. Shoot everything else if you want to and then buy more on the way home from the range (boy my closet is getting full). __________________ Al Eggers (AGE) NRA Life Member

07-21-2002, 07:18 PM	#30
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	The bears that we have are not quite as mean tempered as an Alaska grizzly (we have black bears). We have had a couple in the yard this year, but not at the door. They most usually are nosing around the racing pigeon loft. But just in case, I keep a S&W .44 mag for them to chew on should they come in the front door. __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

07-21-2002, 10:25 PM	#33
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	Reminds me of a question and answer article I read in a hunting magazine years ago. It seems that a gentleman was considering hunting grizzly bears with a .44 Magnum and asked for any suggestions as to make and model to purchase. The editor responded that most any brand would do equally as well, but the first thing to do after purchase was to file off the front sight - that way it wouldn't hurt as much when the bear shoved it up..... [img]eek.gif[/img] __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-22-2002, 12:13 AM	#35
AGE User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 597 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Just shooting a .44 magnum is impressive, the recoil will result in you wacking yourself on the head with the front sight if you aren't ready. Also, if its a SA and the grips have any checkering it will shred you hand like a cabbage shredder. And your hearing (if unprotected) will never be the same. However, for self defense in bear country it sure beats a table leg or piece of firewood if you can handle the gun. Obviously, a heavy rifle would be better for the job, but a rifle is a pain to put up with and keep handy if you are doing something besides hunting. Learn to handle it and a .44 magnum is a wonderful piece. __________________ Al Eggers (AGE) NRA Life Member

07-21-2002, 12:13 AM	#22
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	RK, that's a GREAT story! Your brother and his family will hopefully never have to deal with home invaders or bad people intent on taking what they have.

07-21-2002, 02:03 AM	#24
Jan C Still User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Box 240188, Douglas, Alaska, 99824 Posts: 463 Thanks: 0 Thanked 52 Times in 32 Posts	Wes I was wrong, sorry that I misled you. After reading John D. comments yesterday, I considered myself booted off. Even my thick hide has its limits. However, looking at the Forum this evening it appears that I have not actually been booted. There is some support from the membership for Brad and I remaining on the Forum. However, its all up to the owner (John D.). In any case, I am very supportive of a Luger collectors association. Jan C. Still

07-21-2002, 03:54 AM	#25
Garfield User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A little SE of Nome Posts: 239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mr. Still: With all due respect, you write good books and you say good things, but now you are starting to sound like a "whiner". There are already too many here. If you want to stick, IMHO, I would suggest that you check your backbone. Best Regards and Good Hunting, Garfield

07-21-2002, 10:55 AM	#26
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Since when is John D. a benevolent dictator with the ultimate power of imminent banishment over the peasants? I've been out of line, (Surprise?), and have rec'd polite suggestions from forum members to quit being stupid, but have never had the perception that there is an ever present threat from John D. or anyone else of censure & banishment over anything. I've rec'd much more heat from forum members than the owners of the site. I've always viewed the forum administrators as Luger enthusiasts with the dedication to take the time and trouble to allow this forum to exist in spite of unnecessary problems caused by misguided miscreants such as myself and a specific thankfully few spiteful biased personally vindictive folks with a personal vendetta which I don't care about and don't wish to know. If there is a Damocles sword above my head hanging by a hair I wasn't aware of it. Let me hear a diesel engine start, I get nervous. That's something else. RK

07-21-2002, 11:27 AM	#27
Jan C Still User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Box 240188, Douglas, Alaska, 99824 Posts: 463 Thanks: 0 Thanked 52 Times in 32 Posts	Garfield You misread my post. I apologized to Wes for telling him that I had been booted, when in fact I had not (my mistake). As previously stated, I stand by all that I have posted on this forum without apologies. Jan C. Still <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />

07-21-2002, 05:21 PM	#28
Don User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 146 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Just for the record, I'm a Democrat (at least I vote for more Democrats that Republicans), and I'm armed to the teeth! Maybe it has something to do with being a Texan?

07-21-2002, 07:13 PM	#29
Jan C Still User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Box 240188, Douglas, Alaska, 99824 Posts: 463 Thanks: 0 Thanked 52 Times in 32 Posts	Wes, Roadkill, Doubts, and Don My home defense weapon is an old reliable S&W .41 Mag. Last night my daughter yelled that a bear is at the door. I grabbed my S&W (in case the bear tried to get in) ran to the door but the bear ran off. Jan

07-21-2002, 07:49 PM	#31
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Talk about a coincidence. I had mentioned earlier that I am the recipient of a complete set of loading equipment, there is a set of .41 mag dies included. I studied them for a few minutes, I know nothing about this caliber, however if a person with your firearms experience deems it adequate for the use for which you have reserved, it must be substantial. Would you be so kind to inform? Repectfully RK

07-21-2002, 08:43 PM	#32
Jan C Still User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Box 240188, Douglas, Alaska, 99824 Posts: 463 Thanks: 0 Thanked 52 Times in 32 Posts	Roadkill My firearms experience is limited to collecting, not shooting. However, I have had a little experience with the .41 and .44 mag. The .41 Mag is slightly less powerful than the .44 Mag. Its more than adequate for black bear. I killed one that invaded camp with a single shot several years ago. Brown/grizzly bear can be difficult to kill even with a .375 H&H. The work I do during the summer is often in brown/grizzly bear habitat and a rifle is impractical to carry, so I carry a .41 mag for brown bear protection. Its doubtful if a .41 mag would do an adequate job on a determined grizzly, but it makes you feel safer. It is of note that last Summer a young woman geologist, (whose training with a .44 mag included shooting from the hip) dropped a charging grizzly with a single hip shot from a .44 mag. It dropped 5 feet from her. Jan

07-21-2002, 11:43 PM	#34
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 10 Posts	Years ago I lived in a place where there was an understandably small fad for shooting bears with a small handgun. The idea was to more or less stick the gun down the bear's gullet. You were supposed to have a reliable back up man armed with heavy artillery, but even so, I was never tempted...

07-22-2002, 12:30 AM	#36
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Jan and RK, I happen to remember about the .44 and .41, although before my time. The .44 was essentially desinged by Keith and is a heck of a gun, was designed as a hunting cartridge. The .41 was designed as a police caliber, but never caught on. It was to replace the 357 as a man-stopper, but no dice to many Police Departments, who had tons of .38 to use and were used to them. Anyway, both are excellent, but loading them hotter than hades is silly. They are plenty hot in factory / reloading specs! __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-22-2002, 12:59 AM	#37
G.W. Gill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeastern USA Posts: 369 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Guys, you were talking about .44 mag. Would a short barrel (1.5 inches) have adequate stopping power for self defence?. I have an American Derringer .44 Mag, and that is about the length of barrel left after you load it. It's not unpleasant to shoot. It sounds real powerful. I was just wondering if maybe I was losing a significant amount of energy even with medium loads. Thanks. G.W.

07-22-2002, 04:50 AM	#38
Lugers down under User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Great Barrier Island, New Zealand Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Recently, while driving accross our Island I was attacked in my Misubishi 4x4 by a huge wild Boar. (we call them Captain Cooker's as they were originally released here by Capt Cook.) We caught this critter with two dogs and a knife and boy! was he wild. He got his tusks into my back tire and dented the van but! not a .44 in sight, not even a Luger. They never seem to be there when you want one. The Boar weighed 303 lbs "gutted". Tusks were around 8 inchs long. Hows that for a pig! Murray Great Barrier Island __________________ Lugers down under

07-22-2002, 08:35 AM	#39
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 10 Posts	Murray, We want more details on how you got this pig with two dogs and a knife!

07-22-2002, 10:37 AM	#40
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Jan, Contrary to response you received by the member whose is called "Garfield", I am sure I am not alone on this forum when I say that it takes a heck of a backbone to admit to the world that you made a mistake...of any kind! Although I must admit that philosphically I agree with John D. about most that has transpired here... I want you to publicly make you aware that I'm glad you are part of this forum... as I am sure that he is, and I extend the same warm welcome for you to remain here as I extended when you first posted... I only request that you try to maintain your focus on a bigger picture instead of being being sidetracked on a just couple of issues... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*