Poll: Ban of "automatic handguns ?"

JuergenG · 10-23-2002, 11:32 AM

Looks like the folks down under need help
www.ninemsn.com.au. and here http://au.news.yahoo.com/poll
Juergen

Weissen · 10-23-2002, 07:04 PM

Yep, it's the annual media circus on the gun control topic down here again. Some clown went into a major university in Melbourne and shot up a couple of his class mates before being overpowered by the lecturer and some students.
Of course the media, rubbing their hands with glee for a juicy story like like this, go all out to give all legitimate firearms owners a good kicking. All of the most rabid anti-gunners on the planet are then dragged on to television to espouse the benefits of banning "semi-automatic hanguns" as they call them. And thus public opinion is formed, with most shooters sitting back with a stunned look on their faces as to how this all happened and not knowing how to fight it. It's a bloody sad state of affairs and very, very diffclt to do anything about as unlike you guys in the US we do not have a constitution that enshrines our rights, we have to show reason and explain our motives to others as to why we want to own these things. Kind of like "You are a potential killer, guns kill, prove to me that you will never shoot anybody with that thing".
The media call it "The gun debate" but unfortunately I see no indications of any sort of "debate" going on at all, it's just pure and simple brainwashing.
[img]mad.gif[/img]
Ken

unspellable · 10-23-2002, 07:29 PM

Sad to say, it is not so much different here in the US. Unfortunately, the liberal politicians, judges, media, et nauseum, say the constitution means what they say it means and not as it reads, so our much beloved second amendment is honored more in the breach than in the observation.

Of course we now have a mad man running loose on the eastern seabord so the anti-gun crowd has, true to form, trotted out their pre-canned propaganda. The cable news offers endless coverage (read baloney) and today I read a large non-factual article on ballistics in USA Today.

And so it goes...

Gun control is not about guns.

Doubs · 10-23-2002, 10:03 PM

Unspellable has pretty much hit the nail on the head. The anti-gun idiots wasted no time in trying to make the sniper killings a gun-control issue. Sadly, Fox News today is running a piece on the lethal qualities of the .223 cartridge using milk jugs filled with liquid and pumpkins to show how violently the bullet expands and the damage it does. Pure sensationalism.

The hue and cry from the anti-gunners at the moment is to do a "ballistic fingerprint" on every gun manufactured or sold in the US. Millions upon millions of dollars will be wasted on a system that can be defeated for a few cents and little effort. Fox News did have a ballistics expert on who stated that very fact but I'm certain that the politicians and anti-gunners have their ears closed to any sort of reason. Thank God the Clinton administration is not still in office.

Weissen · 10-23-2002, 11:17 PM

There a live forum going on at this address http://www2b.abc.net.au/news/forum/newsonline7/
I just can't believe the ignorance, mis-information and outright arrogance of some of the anti-gun crowds comments. What are these people so hostile about? It's not as though any of this affects them in any way. I mean, waaaay more people are killed and maimed in automobile accidents but nobody says a word about it. It's just beyond me.
Ahhhh yes.....methinks it's all about control and who has it. They think that the guys with the guns have the "real" power and they just don't like it....
<img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />

Thor · 10-23-2002, 11:21 PM

I saw that today about the 223, what a crock, a 270 Winchester would do a lot more damage as would most 3000 fps deer rifls. Image the show that could demonstrated with my 340 wby with about 3-4 times the muzzle engergy, A 210 gr bullet (with the front partition letting go) at 3200 fps popping a pumpkin. The 223 was being compared to a 22 LR on the show, what a comparision. Well, they always gotta get us somehow. I am just glad the shooter didnt use a real caliber like a .308 and take 300 yd shoots through windows at people, man that would be really worse. Sad to say all scoped deer rifles have been sniper rifles so we must keep them in deer hunter hands. Sorry for the soapbox. <img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" /> This stuff is just the beginning after the smoke clears and they catch this person, the gungrabbers will be in full force.

John -Melb · 10-24-2002, 04:49 AM

Hi folks, from down under
Just letting everyone know, it has been announced this afternoon, in Canberra, that Australia is going down the British path regarding handgun ownership. Within, I would say six months, the private ownership of handguns (except airguns held at a club)will be banned.
Some older message board members may remember the Australian marked Artillery I posted a question about last March. Within six months this fine out warhorse, and a bloody heap more just like it will be on heir way to Valhalla. Crushed, burnt, melted down and offered up on the altar of bigotry, hate, fear and the anti-gun lobbies lies.
I feel like getting drunk!

Stu · 10-24-2002, 08:24 AM

Should the worst come to the worst in AU then is there any point in trying to get organised to export any Lugers, (and similar), to the US before they're destroyed ? Probably be worth more that way than the government price and will be saved for posterity.

Lugerdoc · 10-24-2002, 08:30 AM

To paraphrase Lady Liberty: Send us your weary, tired, outlawed handguns. Tom H.

John -Melb · 10-24-2002, 10:16 AM

In response to Stu and Lugerdoc
Going on our last "buy-back" in 96-7 the answer will be no way! Some top of the line IPSC "race-guns" might get out, but I'm afraid the vast majority will be destroyed. At that buyback(that's Howard-speak for "I'm taking your guns an there's nothing you can do about it" or in other words legislated theft). A gun had to have a buy-back price of more than AU$3,000 before it could be exported. You had to sent the gun to a overseas dealer for sale on consignment and if the gun had not sold within a certain time it had to be returned to Aus for destruction!
Please note I do not refer to the guns true value, but what the Aus Government decided they were prepared to pay for it. For example in early 96, prior to the Port Arthur shootings, a Valmet "Hunter" .308 self loader would cost your about AU$2,500 to 3,200, buy-back price was AU$900!
I don't think any legally owned Luger, or any other classic pistol will get out! This decison will mean the destruction of literally thousands of Lugers, C96 Mausers, Webleys, Colts, you name it, were probably looking at 100,000+ individual firearms.
Don't just fear a government that wants your guns, hate them with a passion!

Edward Tinker · 10-24-2002, 10:34 AM

Are there any Forum members that don't belong to the NRA?

Christmas is coming up, buy memberships for your relatives, Boys and Girls!

Get them interested in the collecting aspect of guns.

Talk to them, your grand-daughter is as much a possible voter as your grandson.

<img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" />

JuergenG · 10-24-2002, 11:50 AM

Yes Ed, there are such members.
I'm member of the German organization "Forum Waffenrecht" www.fwr.de/
Nothing to compare with the NRA, we're only approx. 27,000. Unbelievable in a country having approx. 1.6 million legal gun owners and a reelected governtment of Reddish and Vegetable Taliban!
We just had the new law on (fire)arms officially announced last week. Most all becomes effective on 1st April of 2003 (what a day for fools); pump action shotguns having a pistol grip only instead of a stock are illegal as of last week. Lots of restrictions on buying, heirship, and so on.
Folks here still don't wake up.
Juergen

hermit · 10-24-2002, 05:24 PM

I was gonna say something meaningful and informative on the subject-----and forgot what I was gonna say. It seems to me that a lot of people are more than willing to let the police or govt run every aspect of their lives to make them feel safe. I feel for the victims of this latest sniper thing in the states, but it wasn't the guns' fault.

beamersquared · 10-24-2002, 09:46 PM

I thought Communism was finished!!! sound like its rearing its ugly head again!!

Dont loose hope!!! for years here in Michigan we had some of the thoughest and most oppresive hand gun laws in the states.

Last year we repealed and reformed the CCW law (Concealed Carry Weapons)Through much hard work and effort and electing the right law makers to office, we were able to change things and make this a "right to carry state".

I tell you what. Nothing makes you feel safer than to have your Walther P1 under your coat when you have to drive in downtown Detroit.

No amount of police or goverment protection can equal that.

Those anti-gunners can kiss my BUTT!!!

Beamersquared

Lugerdoc · 10-25-2002, 07:31 AM

I've alway heard, if you want someone to get to your house in a half hour or less, don't call the police, call Dominos.

JuergenG · 10-25-2002, 10:12 AM

Rather call 08-1911-357.
Faster than the Pizza service.
BTW: There's a sticker on the door of
my arms room showing a P08 and
"Wirst Du nachts hier angetroffen,
wirst Du morgens hier aufgefunden".
(If you're met here by night you'll
be found here in the morning).
Shall I get some on the next show
and send a bunch over ?
Juergen

John Sabato · 10-25-2002, 11:07 AM

Jeurgen,

That Sticker sounds great! Just scan the sticker and post in here on the forum... we can print them ourselves!

[img]biggrin.gif[/img] <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />

schwob · 10-26-2002, 09:31 PM

Aw please, post the sticker. I'd like to have copies of it for some people I know. Along with that goes the other immortal phrase....Guns Don't Kill People, People Kill People.

JuergenG · 10-28-2002, 07:17 AM

Issue: The darn door is too big for the scanner.
Will try to get another one and post it here.
Juergen

Marc · 10-28-2002, 07:24 PM

Mmmm..duct tape...about taping the scanner to the door!! <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />

10-23-2002, 11:32 AM	#1
JuergenG User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 154 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Poll: Ban of "automatic handguns ?" Looks like the folks down under need help www.ninemsn.com.au. and here http://au.news.yahoo.com/poll Juergen

10-23-2002, 11:21 PM	#6
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	I saw that today about the 223, what a crock, a 270 Winchester would do a lot more damage as would most 3000 fps deer rifls. Image the show that could demonstrated with my 340 wby with about 3-4 times the muzzle engergy, A 210 gr bullet (with the front partition letting go) at 3200 fps popping a pumpkin. The 223 was being compared to a 22 LR on the show, what a comparision. Well, they always gotta get us somehow. I am just glad the shooter didnt use a real caliber like a .308 and take 300 yd shoots through windows at people, man that would be really worse. Sad to say all scoped deer rifles have been sniper rifles so we must keep them in deer hunter hands. Sorry for the soapbox. <img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" /> This stuff is just the beginning after the smoke clears and they catch this person, the gungrabbers will be in full force. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

10-24-2002, 08:30 AM	#9
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	To paraphrase Lady Liberty: Send us your weary, tired, outlawed handguns. Tom H. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

10-24-2002, 10:34 AM	#11
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Are there any Forum members that don't belong to the NRA? Christmas is coming up, buy memberships for your relatives, Boys and Girls! Get them interested in the collecting aspect of guns. Talk to them, your grand-daughter is as much a possible voter as your grandson. <img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" /> __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-25-2002, 07:31 AM	#15
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	I've alway heard, if you want someone to get to your house in a half hour or less, don't call the police, call Dominos. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

10-23-2002, 07:04 PM	#2
Weissen User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: South Australia Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yep, it's the annual media circus on the gun control topic down here again. Some clown went into a major university in Melbourne and shot up a couple of his class mates before being overpowered by the lecturer and some students. Of course the media, rubbing their hands with glee for a juicy story like like this, go all out to give all legitimate firearms owners a good kicking. All of the most rabid anti-gunners on the planet are then dragged on to television to espouse the benefits of banning "semi-automatic hanguns" as they call them. And thus public opinion is formed, with most shooters sitting back with a stunned look on their faces as to how this all happened and not knowing how to fight it. It's a bloody sad state of affairs and very, very diffclt to do anything about as unlike you guys in the US we do not have a constitution that enshrines our rights, we have to show reason and explain our motives to others as to why we want to own these things. Kind of like "You are a potential killer, guns kill, prove to me that you will never shoot anybody with that thing". The media call it "The gun debate" but unfortunately I see no indications of any sort of "debate" going on at all, it's just pure and simple brainwashing. [img]mad.gif[/img] Ken

10-23-2002, 07:29 PM	#3
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 10 Posts	Sad to say, it is not so much different here in the US. Unfortunately, the liberal politicians, judges, media, et nauseum, say the constitution means what they say it means and not as it reads, so our much beloved second amendment is honored more in the breach than in the observation. Of course we now have a mad man running loose on the eastern seabord so the anti-gun crowd has, true to form, trotted out their pre-canned propaganda. The cable news offers endless coverage (read baloney) and today I read a large non-factual article on ballistics in USA Today. And so it goes... Gun control is not about guns.

10-23-2002, 10:03 PM	#4
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	Unspellable has pretty much hit the nail on the head. The anti-gun idiots wasted no time in trying to make the sniper killings a gun-control issue. Sadly, Fox News today is running a piece on the lethal qualities of the .223 cartridge using milk jugs filled with liquid and pumpkins to show how violently the bullet expands and the damage it does. Pure sensationalism. The hue and cry from the anti-gunners at the moment is to do a "ballistic fingerprint" on every gun manufactured or sold in the US. Millions upon millions of dollars will be wasted on a system that can be defeated for a few cents and little effort. Fox News did have a ballistics expert on who stated that very fact but I'm certain that the politicians and anti-gunners have their ears closed to any sort of reason. Thank God the Clinton administration is not still in office.

10-23-2002, 11:17 PM	#5
Weissen User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: South Australia Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	There a live forum going on at this address http://www2b.abc.net.au/news/forum/newsonline7/ I just can't believe the ignorance, mis-information and outright arrogance of some of the anti-gun crowds comments. What are these people so hostile about? It's not as though any of this affects them in any way. I mean, waaaay more people are killed and maimed in automobile accidents but nobody says a word about it. It's just beyond me. Ahhhh yes.....methinks it's all about control and who has it. They think that the guys with the guns have the "real" power and they just don't like it.... <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />

10-24-2002, 04:49 AM	#7
John -Melb User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Melbourne, Peoples Republic of Australia! Posts: 145 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi folks, from down under Just letting everyone know, it has been announced this afternoon, in Canberra, that Australia is going down the British path regarding handgun ownership. Within, I would say six months, the private ownership of handguns (except airguns held at a club)will be banned. Some older message board members may remember the Australian marked Artillery I posted a question about last March. Within six months this fine out warhorse, and a bloody heap more just like it will be on heir way to Valhalla. Crushed, burnt, melted down and offered up on the altar of bigotry, hate, fear and the anti-gun lobbies lies. I feel like getting drunk!

10-24-2002, 08:24 AM	#8
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 451 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	Should the worst come to the worst in AU then is there any point in trying to get organised to export any Lugers, (and similar), to the US before they're destroyed ? Probably be worth more that way than the government price and will be saved for posterity.

10-24-2002, 10:16 AM	#10
John -Melb User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Melbourne, Peoples Republic of Australia! Posts: 145 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	In response to Stu and Lugerdoc Going on our last "buy-back" in 96-7 the answer will be no way! Some top of the line IPSC "race-guns" might get out, but I'm afraid the vast majority will be destroyed. At that buyback(that's Howard-speak for "I'm taking your guns an there's nothing you can do about it" or in other words legislated theft). A gun had to have a buy-back price of more than AU$3,000 before it could be exported. You had to sent the gun to a overseas dealer for sale on consignment and if the gun had not sold within a certain time it had to be returned to Aus for destruction! Please note I do not refer to the guns true value, but what the Aus Government decided they were prepared to pay for it. For example in early 96, prior to the Port Arthur shootings, a Valmet "Hunter" .308 self loader would cost your about AU$2,500 to 3,200, buy-back price was AU$900! I don't think any legally owned Luger, or any other classic pistol will get out! This decison will mean the destruction of literally thousands of Lugers, C96 Mausers, Webleys, Colts, you name it, were probably looking at 100,000+ individual firearms. Don't just fear a government that wants your guns, hate them with a passion!

10-24-2002, 11:50 AM	#12
JuergenG User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 154 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yes Ed, there are such members. I'm member of the German organization "Forum Waffenrecht" www.fwr.de/ Nothing to compare with the NRA, we're only approx. 27,000. Unbelievable in a country having approx. 1.6 million legal gun owners and a reelected governtment of Reddish and Vegetable Taliban! We just had the new law on (fire)arms officially announced last week. Most all becomes effective on 1st April of 2003 (what a day for fools); pump action shotguns having a pistol grip only instead of a stock are illegal as of last week. Lots of restrictions on buying, heirship, and so on. Folks here still don't wake up. Juergen

10-24-2002, 05:24 PM	#13
hermit User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: canada Posts: 51 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I was gonna say something meaningful and informative on the subject-----and forgot what I was gonna say. It seems to me that a lot of people are more than willing to let the police or govt run every aspect of their lives to make them feel safe. I feel for the victims of this latest sniper thing in the states, but it wasn't the guns' fault.

10-24-2002, 09:46 PM	#14
beamersquared User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: michigan Posts: 21 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I thought Communism was finished!!! sound like its rearing its ugly head again!! Dont loose hope!!! for years here in Michigan we had some of the thoughest and most oppresive hand gun laws in the states. Last year we repealed and reformed the CCW law (Concealed Carry Weapons)Through much hard work and effort and electing the right law makers to office, we were able to change things and make this a "right to carry state". I tell you what. Nothing makes you feel safer than to have your Walther P1 under your coat when you have to drive in downtown Detroit. No amount of police or goverment protection can equal that. Those anti-gunners can kiss my BUTT!!! Beamersquared

10-25-2002, 10:12 AM	#16
JuergenG User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 154 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Rather call 08-1911-357. Faster than the Pizza service. BTW: There's a sticker on the door of my arms room showing a P08 and "Wirst Du nachts hier angetroffen, wirst Du morgens hier aufgefunden". (If you're met here by night you'll be found here in the morning). Shall I get some on the next show and send a bunch over ? Juergen

10-25-2002, 11:07 AM	#17
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Jeurgen, That Sticker sounds great! Just scan the sticker and post in here on the forum... we can print them ourselves! [img]biggrin.gif[/img] <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" /> __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-26-2002, 09:31 PM	#18
schwob RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Coast of Maine Posts: 273 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Aw please, post the sticker. I'd like to have copies of it for some people I know. Along with that goes the other immortal phrase....Guns Don't Kill People, People Kill People.

10-28-2002, 07:17 AM	#19
JuergenG User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 154 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Issue: The darn door is too big for the scanner. Will try to get another one and post it here. Juergen

10-28-2002, 07:24 PM	#20
Marc User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 37 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mmmm..duct tape...about taping the scanner to the door!! <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />