Visit to Simpsons, Ltd - Import Marking Discussion

mrerick · 05-05-2015, 08:09 AM

Last week, I visited Galesburg, Illinois and stopped by Simpsons, Ltd. I met Bob, Carol and several of the people that work there.

Bob said it was OK to film to share a bit of the visit with you on the forum. They were import marking some recently imported pistols, and Bob also let me visit the Luger room.

The machine used for import marking was quite an investment. They are listed online at over $35,000! It creates a very discrete mark in a less visible location.

A warning. The Luger room is a bit overwhelming. There is more stock there than is listed online.

Here's the video:

https://youtu.be/6tixkbwb0Qw

kurusu · 05-05-2015, 08:49 AM

How come a 1911 gets imported in the USA?

Edward Tinker · 05-05-2015, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kurusu

How come a 1911 gets imported in the USA?

Could be a Koenisgberg (sp) Norwegian 1911A1

kurusu · 05-05-2015, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

Could be a Koenisgberg (sp) Norwegian 1911A1

You're right it's a Norwegian 1911. But mind the Norwegian is not a A1

Edward Tinker · 05-05-2015, 08:57 AM

Very cool mark, i have been at their table when they have gotten in some rare stuff, so always cool to see where it ends up

Never been there, if I go, I'd want to take a couple thousand with me

mrerick · 05-05-2015, 09:57 AM

It's actually a bit intoxicating to visit there. Bob was a very gracious host. He has very collectible military things literally everywhere in a fairly large multi-story warehouse.

I did buy something very nice from him.

The pistol in the video was a Koenigsberg Colt Norwegian manufactured 1911 clone.

cirelaw · 05-05-2015, 10:12 AM

How come I have never seen a luger with import marking?? Eric

mrerick · 05-05-2015, 11:00 AM

Most military Lugers were brought into the country prior to the requirement that they be marked.

After 1968, they had to be marked. Most Swiss Lugers have an import mark.

cirelaw · 05-05-2015, 11:05 AM

How Tragic!! Is it still mandatory?? Do all imported or brought over after 1968 require the hidious tatoo?

cirelaw · 05-05-2015, 11:32 AM

I think I found the answer and its not pretty! https://www.atf.gov/files/firearms/g...rification.pdf

mrerick · 05-05-2015, 05:11 PM

Yes - that's it.

Prior to the 2002 change, the marking could be in a hidden place on the frame (under the grips). That is where my earlier M1900 Swiss luger is marked.

After 2002, it had to be on a visible place.

Simpson determined that it was legal to put it on the base of the frame around the magazine well opening. That way, when the magazine is in the gun it covers the import marking.

Marc

cirelaw · 05-05-2015, 05:20 PM

Since all our German lugers were imported here sometime, why aren't the vast number marked. Does that mean they were all imported prior to 1968? Do we all fall into some exemption, I hope! http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...le-gun-values/

John Sabato · 05-05-2015, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cirelaw

Since all our German lugers were imported here sometime, why aren't the vast number marked. Does that mean they were all imported prior to 1968?

Not all, but most that came here were imported before 1968, either commercially or as war trophy bring backs...

After the Gun Control Act of 1968 (a late result of the Kennedy Assassination accomplished with a mail order gun), importing (and buying) guns got much harder with a lot more rules and restrictions.

cirelaw · 05-05-2015, 07:19 PM

Thank You John, I'M sure it affects prices for luger virgins~

alvin · 05-05-2015, 07:43 PM

In normal situation, value is derived from cost. Although high value guns could come at very low cost occasionally, that's definitely scarce situation on the market. If import mark does bring down the cost a lot, it's not all negative then. But I noticed import marks did not affect many guns imported from Europe and sold on Julia recently. "Import mark did not bring down the cost" from buyer's viewpoint, that's a little bit weird, but who knows, we'll keep observing.

Arizona Slim · 05-05-2015, 08:03 PM

A firearm that originated in the U.S. then for whatever reason was sent to another country and later brought back after 1968 still have to be import marked?

Lon

cirelaw · 05-05-2015, 08:21 PM

Leave it to the feds to create more jobs for the Feds~~~

cirelaw · 05-05-2015, 08:24 PM

I sent the question Bob Simpson to see what he says!!

ithacaartist · 05-06-2015, 12:44 AM

I remember something about this from back in the days several years ago when I was baiting the promoters of the mysterious "Carlos" gun collection in Argentina. I think it might make a difference how many are imported in a lot... I await Bob Simpson's reply to Eric!

mrerick · 05-06-2015, 08:17 AM

The answer to the question about re-importing US manufactured firearms is a bit complex.

I believe that it relates to the ownership of the firearm while it was overseas.

If the firearm belonged to the US government while overseas (like the M1 Garand rifles that were loaned by the US government to Greece, for example) they do not have to be import marked.

I recently bought a Smith and Wesson model 10 revolver that had been used by the Victoria Austrialia police. It was traded in to Smith and Wesson for a newer model S&W pistol. Thus, when it re-entered the US, it belonged to S&W. It was not import marked.

If the M1 Garands owned by countries that we sold them to like Korea will have to be import marked if we ever allow re-importation.

The Sturgess collection was import marked as required by Federal law.

I don't think import marking improves the value of firearms. Most collectors of WW-II firearms think it reduces the value of a firearm since it is evidence it wasn't brought in to the USA during or right after the war. Other collectors just consider is evidence of the history of the firearm. Finally some consider it an alteration and flaw that reduces firearm value.

Ultimately this impact is up to the buyer and seller.

Marc

05-05-2015, 08:09 AM	#1
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Visit to Simpsons, Ltd - Import Marking Discussion Last week, I visited Galesburg, Illinois and stopped by Simpsons, Ltd. I met Bob, Carol and several of the people that work there. Bob said it was OK to film to share a bit of the visit with you on the forum. They were import marking some recently imported pistols, and Bob also let me visit the Luger room. The machine used for import marking was quite an investment. They are listed online at over $35,000! It creates a very discrete mark in a less visible location. A warning. The Luger room is a bit overwhelming. There is more stock there than is listed online. Here's the video: https://youtu.be/6tixkbwb0Qw __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

05-05-2015, 09:57 AM	#6
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	It's actually a bit intoxicating to visit there. Bob was a very gracious host. He has very collectible military things literally everywhere in a fairly large multi-story warehouse. I did buy something very nice from him. The pistol in the video was a Koenigsberg Colt Norwegian manufactured 1911 clone. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

05-05-2015, 11:00 AM	#8
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Most military Lugers were brought into the country prior to the requirement that they be marked. After 1968, they had to be marked. Most Swiss Lugers have an import mark. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

05-05-2015, 05:11 PM	#11
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Yes - that's it. Prior to the 2002 change, the marking could be in a hidden place on the frame (under the grips). That is where my earlier M1900 Swiss luger is marked. After 2002, it had to be on a visible place. Simpson determined that it was legal to put it on the base of the frame around the magazine well opening. That way, when the magazine is in the gun it covers the import marking. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

05-06-2015, 12:44 AM	#19
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,282 Thanks: 7,007 Thanked 2,476 Times in 1,319 Posts	I remember something about this from back in the days several years ago when I was baiting the promoters of the mysterious "Carlos" gun collection in Argentina. I think it might make a difference how many are imported in a lot... I await Bob Simpson's reply to Eric! __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

05-05-2015, 08:49 AM	#2
kurusu User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,225 Thanks: 2,679 Thanked 929 Times in 509 Posts	How come a 1911 gets imported in the USA?

05-05-2015, 08:57 AM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Very cool mark, i have been at their table when they have gotten in some rare stuff, so always cool to see where it ends up Never been there, if I go, I'd want to take a couple thousand with me

05-05-2015, 10:12 AM	#7
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	How come I have never seen a luger with import marking?? Eric

05-05-2015, 11:05 AM	#9
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	How Tragic!! Is it still mandatory?? Do all imported or brought over after 1968 require the hidious tatoo?

05-05-2015, 11:32 AM	#10
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	I think I found the answer and its not pretty! https://www.atf.gov/files/firearms/g...rification.pdf

05-05-2015, 05:20 PM	#12
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Since all our German lugers were imported here sometime, why aren't the vast number marked. Does that mean they were all imported prior to 1968? Do we all fall into some exemption, I hope! http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...le-gun-values/

05-05-2015, 07:19 PM	#14
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Thank You John, I'M sure it affects prices for luger virgins~

05-05-2015, 07:43 PM	#15
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	In normal situation, value is derived from cost. Although high value guns could come at very low cost occasionally, that's definitely scarce situation on the market. If import mark does bring down the cost a lot, it's not all negative then. But I noticed import marks did not affect many guns imported from Europe and sold on Julia recently. "Import mark did not bring down the cost" from buyer's viewpoint, that's a little bit weird, but who knows, we'll keep observing.

05-05-2015, 08:03 PM	#16
Arizona Slim Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 706 Thanks: 1,026 Thanked 409 Times in 225 Posts	A firearm that originated in the U.S. then for whatever reason was sent to another country and later brought back after 1968 still have to be import marked? Lon

05-05-2015, 08:21 PM	#17
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Leave it to the feds to create more jobs for the Feds~~~

05-05-2015, 08:24 PM	#18
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	I sent the question Bob Simpson to see what he says!!

05-06-2015, 08:17 AM	#20
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	The answer to the question about re-importing US manufactured firearms is a bit complex. I believe that it relates to the ownership of the firearm while it was overseas. If the firearm belonged to the US government while overseas (like the M1 Garand rifles that were loaned by the US government to Greece, for example) they do not have to be import marked. I recently bought a Smith and Wesson model 10 revolver that had been used by the Victoria Austrialia police. It was traded in to Smith and Wesson for a newer model S&W pistol. Thus, when it re-entered the US, it belonged to S&W. It was not import marked. If the M1 Garands owned by countries that we sold them to like Korea will have to be import marked if we ever allow re-importation. The Sturgess collection was import marked as required by Federal law. I don't think import marking improves the value of firearms. Most collectors of WW-II firearms think it reduces the value of a firearm since it is evidence it wasn't brought in to the USA during or right after the war. Other collectors just consider is evidence of the history of the firearm. Finally some consider it an alteration and flaw that reduces firearm value. Ultimately this impact is up to the buyer and seller. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.