Virginia shooting

..

[policeluger]

Thank you tac....this is just horrid....the poor parents

[lugerholsterrepair]

This is similar to the senseless tragedies in Iraq. A madman willing to sacrafice his own life is virtually unstoppable. There are thousands of places in America where people are defensless against a determined killer. It was only a matter of time before something on this scale would occour. Police response was too little too late for 30 of the victems. Only another person with a self defense weapon, a gun, could possibly have stopped this.
One can only react in utter horror at the act of a deranged madman.
This will add new fuel to the fire of Democrats wanting to strip away 2nd amendment freedoms but there is only one thing responsible. The triggerman.
My heart aches for those who lost their loved ones. Jerry Burney

[Jim McArthur]

Sad, but true, Jerry. It illustrates the fallacy of gun control. Only the law-abiding will obey. And thereby become prey to the law breakers.

Jim

[Navy]

If only a faculty member or staff had a concealed weapons permit, this would be a footnote.

I have many friends with children at Tech; I pray they are not among the victims.

Tom A

[shadow]

Originally posted by Tom A
If only a faculty member or staff had a concealed weapons permit, this would be a footnote.
Tom A

This is a tragic day to say the least.

One of the news networks is pointing out that students at VT are not allowed to carry on campus even though it is legal for college students to carry on campuses in that state.

I pulled this graphic off another site but it didn't take long for someone to make it.

Chris

[lew1]

An odd thing I noticed about this instance is the lack of publicity on the shooter.

In the past, the news media would have been out intervewing everyone out to 8th degree and all neighbors witin a 20 mile radius, etc.

In this instance, the authorities will not admit (insofar I have seen) even to the name of the person who did the shooting.

[Lugerdoc]

Lew, I'm sure that the public is curious about the motivation of the killer, but since some of these unbalanced individuals crave the infamy of their deeds, I say why give them the publicity, which might encourage others to copy their deeds. TH

[Ron Smith]

I just heard former FBI Profiler Clint Van Zant say something interesting on the morning news. When asked "Why do these incidents happen at schools?" He said, "These are cowardly acts. The shooters are cowardly weak people who are looking for a target rich environment. And know that their victims won't have the ability to offer any form of defense. They have nothing to fear"

[HerbZ]

I'm sadden to learn of this tragedy, and my thoughts and prayers go out to the families of all those involved.

I'm also sadden to think how we're in for another round of legislation by politicians all too eager to grab the spotlight and work on the peoples' emotions. They'll want yet more "gun control" because it's always easier to identify and attack the symptoms than the causes.

Something is horribly wrong with an individual who'll express his personal pain, anger, frustration, and the loss that may have caused it upon the community in such a manner as this. Sure the availability of handguns and ammunition may have made his actions possible, but this possibility has existed for generations here. There must be dozens if not hundreds of songs that deal specifically with this young man's kind of loss, and sometimes they do have tragic endings like murder and suicide. But not of these proportions we're witnessing today, and not upon strangers who have nothing to do with the affair.

There's something horribly wrong with a society that keeps repeatedly producing such individuals. Individuals who feel so alone, so isolated, so disconnected from the community and society that make their lives possible, that they can strike out so violently against what after all is an extension of themselves, their family and home. Now, many may want to decry such an accusatory statement as mine. Say that I'm trying to take responsibility for an individual's actions and spread it too far and freely (even liberally). But I say that restricting the blame to only the individual who has committed these atrocious acts is just as unknowing, unthinking, and unwise as only finding blame with the availability of the means he used.

And going off and distributing the blame to a whole litany of things like; the public school systems, the media, video games and so and so forth; isn't going to get to the heart of the matter either. There may very well be problems with all of these, but they're just more symptoms. We have to get down to something much more fundamental to all the many features and facets of our society and culture; the very values that determine everything else. These are reflected in the customs we practice in our daily lives, in all our institutions both public and private, and in the very language we use when we speak.

[waltherguy]

Well said Herbz, What a horrible thing... I just saw this paragraph on msnbc news.

A federal law enforcement official said Tuesday he had been told by other federal law enforcement officials that the two guns recovered in the shooting had had their serial numbers scraped off. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the information had not been announced.

[Navy]

Local media is reporting the perp was a permanent resident alien, likely Korean.

Tom A

[zeke1312]

A horrible, sad event of unbelievable proportion!

Already the govts of England and Australia are badmouthing US gun laws. English citizens are used to not owning guns. In the 1500s or whenever, only the nobility owned guns, serfs could not. Don't know that situation has changed since then (the regular folks owning guns).

Australia? A recent article in the NRA American Rifleman noted the Australian Minister agency responsible for gun control admitted the collecting of guns did NOT reduce gun crimes in their country.

Unfortunately, this will enable anti-gun people to make guns an election issue. I do believe strict enforcement of current gun laws. Today the news reported this creep had an invoice in his backpack for purchasing a gun. I recently read there is an estimated 70 or 80 MILLION guns in the US. Do the anti-gun people believe all these guns could be confiscated with new guns laws? Give me a break. It's going to be a "Cindy Sheean" syndrome as a result of this situation.

In any case, it is a horrendous event.

[waltherguy]

Originally posted by tacfoley
We are getting the news in just now that one of the victims was a 70-year old Rumanian Holocaust survivor who put himself against the door to shield his students when the gunman started shooting through it.

'greater love...'

tac

I saw that also Tac, yet another Testament to the bravery and selflessness of the Greatest Generation.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Tac, You might be overly sensitive. Comparing British restrictions to American gun laws is perfectly natural. Serf, Vassal, All subjects, servants of the King or his retainers. The British are the ones responsible for this social segragation. It is a part of history and to object to it's legitimate usage is to reject history and social perspective relative to British rule. You would be right to reject the slur, Not accept it...

However, I believe here Citizen might be the more appropriate word. You see, you are probably not a serf. A serf is an agricultural worker in the Feudal system. Actually a slave in Latin. So, unless you have a garden your Wife makes you grow....

Jerry Burney

[lugerholsterrepair]

Tac, Well done! I know you to be loyal and well trusted but it rankles many in America to be called a slave. I believe that was one of the main reasons many voluntarily came to America..To avoid that unpleasantness. Those who came unvoluntarily, well....We both have colorful histories that we can look back on and finds parts we can be proud of.
Like many American veterans I run into here, I thank you for your service to God and Country sir. Cheerrs! Jerry Burney

[zeke1312]

Tac:

My reference using the word "serf" was meant to describe the people in that period of time. The nobility legally owned guns for among other things, hunting on their lands while the common folk could not own guns much less hunt.

It was not meant to demean any person or group of people. If I had lived during the period, I would be classified as a "serf", i.e., a common man. That's what many of the common folk were called during that period of time was it not?

Although I do not know British gun laws, I understand from various sources that those laws are more stringent than here in the US. Please correct me if I am wrong!

The world once again wants to "help" the USA in passing more laws that restrict gun ownership in the US. Also, many people is the US and for that matter the world, want us to not write, speak or otherwise use terms and/or names that are part of history....they want to rewrite it a "little bit" in the history books. I digress here and will not post of it further.

Once again, this incident is horrendous and many involved will never recover from it.

[Navy]

"If just ONE person had been armed, he could have been stopped.

tac"

Amen!

Tom A.

[HerbZ]

Tac & Tom A,

While it's true that faculty and students with CC permits are barred at Virginia Tech from carrying a weapon on campus, had that not been the case may not have necessarily made a difference. The shooting was still in progress when several guns were present on the campus and more rushing onto campus every minute. All were in the possession of people who probably had more training in how to use their weapon than most citizens with a CC permit.

It wouldn't be proper for me or any of us who were not there to pass any kind of judgment or offer criticism of the law enforcement professionals who responded to the shooting at Virginia Tech; and I don't want my statements to be so misconstrued. I believe it takes a special kind of person, with a lot of special training, to rush with a weapon into a situation with an unknown number of shooters in the midst of scores or possibly even hundreds of innocent civilians.

So, just because a person can put 15 out of 18 pistol rounds into the 7 ring on a silhouette target at 7 yards (as is required for a CC permit here in Ohio), doesn't mean they can apply that amount of skill and training in every situation that might call for it.

[lew1]

HerbZ

I do not recall any mention in this thread that passed judgment on or offered criticism of the police.

Consequently I do not understand your comment as to that aspect.