Recent California Horror story..True!

JR. · 09-11-2003, 07:16 PM

A young man and his family, wife, kid, and two dogs (Best friends of one of my workers) was passing thru Ca. on his way to report for duty in Washington state, everything he owned in an open trailer.... Just outside of LA, his trailer went out of control, flipping his explorer, and rolling all down an embankment... Thank God, no one was injured, but he knew the situation was bad. When invesitgating officers discovered his gun collection, they confiscated all, pre ban AR 15, .50 cal bolt action. K98k, hunting rifles and shotguns, pistols, all! Probably $15 to $20K worth of weapons, no list,no receipt, no return, the sherrif informed him they're just gone for good.... impounded his trailer for $500 & $50 a day for eveyday after....only had insurance on the vehicle.... I gave my worker the day off, and gas, to go to LA and get his friend and family...they are back in Phoenix right now, and they are just crushed, ...both physically, and mentally...Whats wrong with this picture??? What the hell is wrong with those people over there? Any ideas as to what action if any can be taken to recover his guns?? California sucks! till....later...GT <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

Edward Tinker · 09-11-2003, 07:38 PM

I would imagine there are some laws for actual transport of firearms and he should sue.

Plus sue for mental anguish etc.

I will have gun insurance before I travel...

Ed

John F. · 09-11-2003, 08:18 PM

One problem is that he was taking an AR15 and a .50 cal. rifle through Kalifornia. Also he probably had high capacity mags and maybe other state-banned "assault weapons". I am not sure but I believe Kalifornia may have a ban on .50's. I know they have a ban on bringing non-registered AR15's, AW's, and high cap mags into their little chunk of communist paradise. Whether they have any provision for transporting weapons through the state enroute elsewhere or not, I don't know but it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't, given their other leanings.
John

policeluger · 09-11-2003, 08:29 PM

I am very VERY sorry, as a Kalifornia resident it does indeed suck. Like it or not the law does not allow for anything "AR"...I had too get rid of by Colt 6601. Also had too remove pre-ban flash suppressor from my M1A, or become a felon. But K98k and hunting rifles and handguns are still allowed but for how long. Seems too me a very over zelious deputy, especially since it was a single car accident, I assume no liquor was involved?. Do you care too tell me what county it happened in, I know a few Kern and San Bernardino counties sheriffs come through my gun smith business, and a few CHP I know well, at best perhaps I could just ask how he goes about recovering his guns. I hope he has a picture of the AR, my guess is he'll never see it again, but if I can I'll try and help

Herb · 09-11-2003, 09:08 PM

JR, I infer from your post that this individual is in the military (report for duty) is this correct? If so if he can get the military to state that he was 'on duty' for the purpose of responding to official orders to relocate, he just might have a chance of getting the firearms back. The KA firearms codes state essentially that the carrying or transportation of firearms within or thru the state by members of the military 'while on duty' are exempt from most of the regulations. Might be a long shot but worth a try. I recommend that he immediately contact the State Attorney General's office in Sacramento and file a complaint along with all the pertinent info. If he is in the military he will also have the use of free legal advise. Nearly all of the KA code pertains to transportation of firearms capable of being concealed on the person, in this case they must be locked in a container. The weapons you mentioned do not fit that category. You (he) can get a federal publication which has all of the different state published firearms ordinances, its ATF P 5300.5 available from the BATF at ATF Distribution Center, P.O. Box 5950, Springfield, VA 22150-5950, phone 703-455-7801. My gut feeling is that they are gone already, went home with the 'capturing' police officer, and probably not even officially reported.

JR. · 09-11-2003, 09:31 PM

Hi to all! Thanks for the kind offer policeluger, and you are correct Herb.. he does have some chance (actually, chances for recovery look good as of right now) with the military, I found this out right after I posted the first note! They are exploring that option right now! BUT, if it happen to someone not in the service... you would be just #*&$ out of luck!!! It is a great example of just how easy you can lose all your guns! I will keep all informed.... It's still not right though>>>>> till....later....GT

tracyp · 09-11-2003, 10:05 PM

In California any AR15 sytle weapons are illegal. .50 caliber rifles and handguns are not yet illegal.

California is run by liberals who want to ban all gun and are now giving drivers licenses to illegal aliens. Oh I forgot, they're not Liberal they're Progressive.

Herb · 09-11-2003, 10:05 PM

Jr, glad to hear that he has a chance, if he was in an official leave status he should have his orders amended to show 'departing official leave status as of "date, time" and entering official travel status and then back into leave status after reporting to his new duty station, this will resolve any legal question of his 'official' status if it is brought up, particularily if the confiscated firearms somehow 'disappear' and the state has to show cause or pay for them. Let this be a lesson to the members of this forum, if you are transporting firearms, avoid Kalifornia even if it means a long detour. I lived in that hell-hole for 27 years, and was expecting the KAstapo to knock on my door at any time as I have a FFL and my back yard shared a fence with a grade school, not a good situation.

colcolombo · 09-11-2003, 10:06 PM

Perhaps the poor fellow could enlist the help of the NRA and spotlight this incident and the "officer" that took his guns.

They also might have some ideas that none of us have thought of.

Worth the effort I would think. Even if he is fortunate enough to recover his guns, it would make for a good story and possibly prevent the same thing from happening to someone else.

It won't ever happen to me because I have no desire to ever enter the Republic of K. Things like that don't happen in Kentucky. I guess we have the most liberal gun laws in the country. It is, however frowned on if you use one to shoot someone. If, however, that someone was from Kalifornia, it might be considered justifiable. Would be if I was a juror.

I wish him the best of luck in his efforts.

Joe Hill

Doubs · 09-11-2003, 10:37 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by colcolombo:
Perhaps the poor fellow could enlist the help of the NRA and spotlight this incident and the "officer" that took his guns. Joe Hill<hr /></blockquote>Checking with the NRA would be a good beginning. As I recall, a federal law was passed some 15 or 20 years ago that provides for safe transport of privately (civilian as well as military) owned guns through all states as long as the owner has a legal reason to do so. As federal law is superior to state law, the gun owner may have reason to sue the state of California and the officer(s) involved. While I don't ordinarily like the idea of suing LEO's who are doing their jobs, there are instances where they prey on innocent people and depend upon their position to insulate them from repercussion. This, IMO, is one of those times.

Herb · 09-11-2003, 10:45 PM

Doubs, right on, here is the interpretation
FEDERAL LAW ON TRANSPORTATION OF FIREARMS

A provision of federal law serves as a defense to state or local laws which would prohibit the passage of persons with firearms in interstate travel.

Notwithstanding any state or local law, a person shall be entitled to transport a firearm from any place where he may lawfully possess and transport such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and transport such firearm if the firearm is unloaded and in the trunk. In vehicles without a trunk, the unloaded firearm shall be in a locked container other then the glove compartment or console. Necessary stops, e.g., gasoline and rest, seem permissible.

AGE · 09-11-2003, 11:41 PM

Herb and Doubs,

You are right, I used to have occasion to pass from PA through NY to CT and had to face this problem. I had residences in both PA and CT and had CCWs in both states but NY is even worse than KAL. I knew I had to pass through NY directly, preferably without stopping and prayed that I wouldn't get into an accident. The guy who lost his hardware should talk to the NRA (not sure who, but probably someone in ILA) to find a lawyer ASAP who is familiar with KAL and the correct federal law to get the guns back.

Barry Briscoe · 09-12-2003, 12:11 AM

An article concerning the 1986 Firearms Owners' Protection Act,the interstate transportation of firearms is discussed near the end of the article.

http://www.guncite.com/journals/hardfopa.html

Good Luck!

bbqjpw · 09-12-2003, 01:44 AM

Herb,
As a former Amry 82nd Airborne infantry paratrooper and current law enforcement Officer I take great offense in your statement that a fellow Officer would take the guns and in your words "My gut feeling is that they are gone already, went home with the 'capturing' police officer, and probably not even officially reported". This is complete bull@%$#. No Ar-15 is worth my job. Nothing would be done that the law does not mandate and I can guarantee you that no Officer that I work with or know would step on your rights as per the 2nd amendment. Stop blaming the soldiers when you should be blaming the politicians. This is a law that was passed in California, however sad, the person should have read the law before transporting firearms actross state lines and taken appropiate steps. I do hope that he gets the weapons back, but he should have known this was possibility. Officers are not trying to steal your guns and are not making a profit from doing so.

Jim

Edward Tinker · 09-12-2003, 02:14 AM

Jim, I agree in principle with what you said, but I highly doubt the law states taking these:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />K98k, hunting rifles and shotguns, pistols, all!<hr /></blockquote>In an official move, whether military or civilian, I am pretty sure that you are authorized to transport your own weapons through the state, with "assault weapons" probably not included in this statement.

Ed
Current FOP and retired US Army Military Police

bbqjpw · 09-12-2003, 02:38 AM

Ed,
I won't pretend to know California law. But in Washington, If I were to take someone's guns it would be for a criminal matter. I would not just take certain guns from someone I suspected of being a criminal, I would take them all. The underlying problem here is the mistrust and resentment of some people toward the Police. Almost everyone I serve with is ex-military and has shed blood for the United States, in one country or another. It just makes me mad when someone believes that we (the police) are out to steal their guns and somehow have our own private agenda. Most of us have fought to defend the vary rights they are complaining about. If it were up to me guns would only be in the hands of honest people, however honest people are not always easy to identify on the street.

Jim

Big Norm · 09-12-2003, 03:14 AM

Jim,
I hate to think that I will get you mad, but I could name numerous instances where police, other legal officers of the law, and, sometimes, just plain government workers have intimidated people who they felt knew little about law and confiscated goods for their personal use. Newspapers are filled with many examples of sexual as well as drug related instances of this. But it also occurs in other, less publicized, areas. You sound like an officer who is worth his weight in gold because of your honesty. God bless you if you are. But there are many, many government agents (broadly defined) who are more than willing to take advantage of the unknowing and intimidated. That is why we have defense attorneys who are quite wealthy and quite busy. We also have many judges who are either corrupt, political or actually ignorant of the law. Its a big country and it takes many different types of people to fill our bloated and numerous bureaucracies. And yes, it does take time and money to prove that a government worker is wrong. Some people just don't have a lot of either and just give up.
Big Norm

unspellable · 09-12-2003, 08:28 AM

I second Big Norm. I too have been abused by officers of the law, especially where firearms are concerned. I do not think it was for personal use, but I have had a firearm illegally confiscated. I went through a long drawn out fight to get it back. There are quite a few in offical positions who seem to think the law means whatever they want it to mean rather than what it actually says. (Now that I think of it, that sounds like a fair description of a some so called "liberals".)

Cops are like anybody else, there are good ones, mediocre ones, and bad ones. The proportions seem to vary according to locality.

Heydrich · 09-12-2003, 01:02 PM

The LAPD must need more firepower, so the next time two guys shoot up their town they don’t go through the same ignominy on national TV. Maybe the guy accidentally left a loaded gun in the trailer. Oregon has this prohibition too, one of the few non-buying gun control laws of note. When I was a kid, I wasn’t even aware of this one for many years. I used to chuck a fully loaded K into the backseat of my VW (I spaced the trunk law too) and drive up into the hills. This seems innocuous, but for the fact that I used to park right next to the home of a county sheriff close to the shooting area. (I asked him politely for permission to park there.) Countless times I whipped out a fully loaded rifle from the backseat and slinged it right in front of his house and police cruiser. I guess he must not have seen me doing this.

Herb · 09-12-2003, 01:19 PM

BBQJPW, You can take offense at anything I say if you wish, however as I stated I lived in CA for 27 years, during a portion of that time I was in the National Guard and served with Deputy Sheriffs, city police, CHP and others. I have heard many of thier stories about confiscating weapons or just stealing them if the person is drunk and passed out on one of the river levees. My son had a new pistol taken from him during a random stop, he was returning home from the range and had the pistol, unloaded, under the seat, gone, he never got it back. So you take offense, I know better.

09-11-2003, 07:16 PM	#1
JR. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Recent California Horror story..True! A young man and his family, wife, kid, and two dogs (Best friends of one of my workers) was passing thru Ca. on his way to report for duty in Washington state, everything he owned in an open trailer.... Just outside of LA, his trailer went out of control, flipping his explorer, and rolling all down an embankment... Thank God, no one was injured, but he knew the situation was bad. When invesitgating officers discovered his gun collection, they confiscated all, pre ban AR 15, .50 cal bolt action. K98k, hunting rifles and shotguns, pistols, all! Probably $15 to $20K worth of weapons, no list,no receipt, no return, the sherrif informed him they're just gone for good.... impounded his trailer for $500 & $50 a day for eveyday after....only had insurance on the vehicle.... I gave my worker the day off, and gas, to go to LA and get his friend and family...they are back in Phoenix right now, and they are just crushed, ...both physically, and mentally...Whats wrong with this picture??? What the hell is wrong with those people over there? Any ideas as to what action if any can be taken to recover his guns?? California sucks! till....later...GT <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

09-11-2003, 07:38 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	I would imagine there are some laws for actual transport of firearms and he should sue. Plus sue for mental anguish etc. I will have gun insurance before I travel... Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-11-2003, 08:18 PM	#3
John F. User Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 37 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	One problem is that he was taking an AR15 and a .50 cal. rifle through Kalifornia. Also he probably had high capacity mags and maybe other state-banned "assault weapons". I am not sure but I believe Kalifornia may have a ban on .50's. I know they have a ban on bringing non-registered AR15's, AW's, and high cap mags into their little chunk of communist paradise. Whether they have any provision for transporting weapons through the state enroute elsewhere or not, I don't know but it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't, given their other leanings. John __________________ John

09-11-2003, 09:08 PM	#5
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	JR, I infer from your post that this individual is in the military (report for duty) is this correct? If so if he can get the military to state that he was 'on duty' for the purpose of responding to official orders to relocate, he just might have a chance of getting the firearms back. The KA firearms codes state essentially that the carrying or transportation of firearms within or thru the state by members of the military 'while on duty' are exempt from most of the regulations. Might be a long shot but worth a try. I recommend that he immediately contact the State Attorney General's office in Sacramento and file a complaint along with all the pertinent info. If he is in the military he will also have the use of free legal advise. Nearly all of the KA code pertains to transportation of firearms capable of being concealed on the person, in this case they must be locked in a container. The weapons you mentioned do not fit that category. You (he) can get a federal publication which has all of the different state published firearms ordinances, its ATF P 5300.5 available from the BATF at ATF Distribution Center, P.O. Box 5950, Springfield, VA 22150-5950, phone 703-455-7801. My gut feeling is that they are gone already, went home with the 'capturing' police officer, and probably not even officially reported. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

09-11-2003, 10:05 PM	#8
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Jr, glad to hear that he has a chance, if he was in an official leave status he should have his orders amended to show 'departing official leave status as of "date, time" and entering official travel status and then back into leave status after reporting to his new duty station, this will resolve any legal question of his 'official' status if it is brought up, particularily if the confiscated firearms somehow 'disappear' and the state has to show cause or pay for them. Let this be a lesson to the members of this forum, if you are transporting firearms, avoid Kalifornia even if it means a long detour. I lived in that hell-hole for 27 years, and was expecting the KAstapo to knock on my door at any time as I have a FFL and my back yard shared a fence with a grade school, not a good situation. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

09-11-2003, 08:29 PM	#4
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	I am very VERY sorry, as a Kalifornia resident it does indeed suck. Like it or not the law does not allow for anything "AR"...I had too get rid of by Colt 6601. Also had too remove pre-ban flash suppressor from my M1A, or become a felon. But K98k and hunting rifles and handguns are still allowed but for how long. Seems too me a very over zelious deputy, especially since it was a single car accident, I assume no liquor was involved?. Do you care too tell me what county it happened in, I know a few Kern and San Bernardino counties sheriffs come through my gun smith business, and a few CHP I know well, at best perhaps I could just ask how he goes about recovering his guns. I hope he has a picture of the AR, my guess is he'll never see it again, but if I can I'll try and help

09-11-2003, 09:31 PM	#6
JR. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi to all! Thanks for the kind offer policeluger, and you are correct Herb.. he does have some chance (actually, chances for recovery look good as of right now) with the military, I found this out right after I posted the first note! They are exploring that option right now! BUT, if it happen to someone not in the service... you would be just #*&$ out of luck!!! It is a great example of just how easy you can lose all your guns! I will keep all informed.... It's still not right though>>>>> till....later....GT

09-11-2003, 10:05 PM	#7
tracyp User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Peoples Republic of Kalifornia Posts: 391 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	In California any AR15 sytle weapons are illegal. .50 caliber rifles and handguns are not yet illegal. California is run by liberals who want to ban all gun and are now giving drivers licenses to illegal aliens. Oh I forgot, they're not Liberal they're Progressive.

09-11-2003, 10:06 PM	#9
colcolombo User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Kentucky Posts: 75 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Perhaps the poor fellow could enlist the help of the NRA and spotlight this incident and the "officer" that took his guns. They also might have some ideas that none of us have thought of. Worth the effort I would think. Even if he is fortunate enough to recover his guns, it would make for a good story and possibly prevent the same thing from happening to someone else. It won't ever happen to me because I have no desire to ever enter the Republic of K. Things like that don't happen in Kentucky. I guess we have the most liberal gun laws in the country. It is, however frowned on if you use one to shoot someone. If, however, that someone was from Kalifornia, it might be considered justifiable. Would be if I was a juror. I wish him the best of luck in his efforts. Joe Hill

09-11-2003, 10:37 PM	#10
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by colcolombo: <strong>Perhaps the poor fellow could enlist the help of the NRA and spotlight this incident and the "officer" that took his guns. Joe Hill</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Checking with the NRA would be a good beginning. As I recall, a federal law was passed some 15 or 20 years ago that provides for safe transport of privately (civilian as well as military) owned guns through all states as long as the owner has a legal reason to do so. As federal law is superior to state law, the gun owner may have reason to sue the state of California and the officer(s) involved. While I don't ordinarily like the idea of suing LEO's who are doing their jobs, there are instances where they prey on innocent people and depend upon their position to insulate them from repercussion. This, IMO, is one of those times.

09-11-2003, 10:45 PM	#11
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Doubs, right on, here is the interpretation FEDERAL LAW ON TRANSPORTATION OF FIREARMS A provision of federal law serves as a defense to state or local laws which would prohibit the passage of persons with firearms in interstate travel. Notwithstanding any state or local law, a person shall be entitled to transport a firearm from any place where he may lawfully possess and transport such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and transport such firearm if the firearm is unloaded and in the trunk. In vehicles without a trunk, the unloaded firearm shall be in a locked container other then the glove compartment or console. Necessary stops, e.g., gasoline and rest, seem permissible. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

09-11-2003, 11:41 PM	#12
AGE User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 597 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Herb and Doubs, You are right, I used to have occasion to pass from PA through NY to CT and had to face this problem. I had residences in both PA and CT and had CCWs in both states but NY is even worse than KAL. I knew I had to pass through NY directly, preferably without stopping and prayed that I wouldn't get into an accident. The guy who lost his hardware should talk to the NRA (not sure who, but probably someone in ILA) to find a lawyer ASAP who is familiar with KAL and the correct federal law to get the guns back. __________________ Al Eggers (AGE) NRA Life Member

09-12-2003, 12:11 AM	#13
Barry Briscoe User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 29 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	An article concerning the 1986 Firearms Owners' Protection Act,the interstate transportation of firearms is discussed near the end of the article. http://www.guncite.com/journals/hardfopa.html Good Luck!

09-12-2003, 01:44 AM	#14
bbqjpw User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Everett,WA Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Herb, As a former Amry 82nd Airborne infantry paratrooper and current law enforcement Officer I take great offense in your statement that a fellow Officer would take the guns and in your words "My gut feeling is that they are gone already, went home with the 'capturing' police officer, and probably not even officially reported". This is complete bull@%$#. No Ar-15 is worth my job. Nothing would be done that the law does not mandate and I can guarantee you that no Officer that I work with or know would step on your rights as per the 2nd amendment. Stop blaming the soldiers when you should be blaming the politicians. This is a law that was passed in California, however sad, the person should have read the law before transporting firearms actross state lines and taken appropiate steps. I do hope that he gets the weapons back, but he should have known this was possibility. Officers are not trying to steal your guns and are not making a profit from doing so. Jim

09-12-2003, 02:14 AM	#15
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Jim, I agree in principle with what you said, but I highly doubt the law states taking these: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">K98k, hunting rifles and shotguns, pistols, all!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">In an official move, whether military or civilian, I am pretty sure that you are authorized to transport your own weapons through the state, with "assault weapons" probably not included in this statement. Ed Current FOP and retired US Army Military Police __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-12-2003, 02:38 AM	#16
bbqjpw User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Everett,WA Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ed, I won't pretend to know California law. But in Washington, If I were to take someone's guns it would be for a criminal matter. I would not just take certain guns from someone I suspected of being a criminal, I would take them all. The underlying problem here is the mistrust and resentment of some people toward the Police. Almost everyone I serve with is ex-military and has shed blood for the United States, in one country or another. It just makes me mad when someone believes that we (the police) are out to steal their guns and somehow have our own private agenda. Most of us have fought to defend the vary rights they are complaining about. If it were up to me guns would only be in the hands of honest people, however honest people are not always easy to identify on the street. Jim

09-12-2003, 03:14 AM	#17
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Jim, I hate to think that I will get you mad, but I could name numerous instances where police, other legal officers of the law, and, sometimes, just plain government workers have intimidated people who they felt knew little about law and confiscated goods for their personal use. Newspapers are filled with many examples of sexual as well as drug related instances of this. But it also occurs in other, less publicized, areas. You sound like an officer who is worth his weight in gold because of your honesty. God bless you if you are. But there are many, many government agents (broadly defined) who are more than willing to take advantage of the unknowing and intimidated. That is why we have defense attorneys who are quite wealthy and quite busy. We also have many judges who are either corrupt, political or actually ignorant of the law. Its a big country and it takes many different types of people to fill our bloated and numerous bureaucracies. And yes, it does take time and money to prove that a government worker is wrong. Some people just don't have a lot of either and just give up. Big Norm

09-12-2003, 08:28 AM	#18
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 10 Posts	I second Big Norm. I too have been abused by officers of the law, especially where firearms are concerned. I do not think it was for personal use, but I have had a firearm illegally confiscated. I went through a long drawn out fight to get it back. There are quite a few in offical positions who seem to think the law means whatever they want it to mean rather than what it actually says. (Now that I think of it, that sounds like a fair description of a some so called "liberals".) Cops are like anybody else, there are good ones, mediocre ones, and bad ones. The proportions seem to vary according to locality.

09-12-2003, 01:02 PM	#19
Heydrich Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Oregon Posts: 181 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The LAPD must need more firepower, so the next time two guys shoot up their town they don’t go through the same ignominy on national TV. Maybe the guy accidentally left a loaded gun in the trailer. Oregon has this prohibition too, one of the few non-buying gun control laws of note. When I was a kid, I wasn’t even aware of this one for many years. I used to chuck a fully loaded K into the backseat of my VW (I spaced the trunk law too) and drive up into the hills. This seems innocuous, but for the fact that I used to park right next to the home of a county sheriff close to the shooting area. (I asked him politely for permission to park there.) Countless times I whipped out a fully loaded rifle from the backseat and slinged it right in front of his house and police cruiser. I guess he must not have seen me doing this.

09-12-2003, 01:19 PM	#20
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	BBQJPW, You can take offense at anything I say if you wish, however as I stated I lived in CA for 27 years, during a portion of that time I was in the National Guard and served with Deputy Sheriffs, city police, CHP and others. I have heard many of thier stories about confiscating weapons or just stealing them if the person is drunk and passed out on one of the river levees. My son had a new pistol taken from him during a random stop, he was returning home from the range and had the pistol, unloaded, under the seat, gone, he never got it back. So you take offense, I know better. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull