OT-Battle Movies

Thor · 03-16-2003, 07:26 PM

<img border="0" alt="[offtopic]" title="" src="graemlins/offtopic.gif" /> Just finished viewing "Windtalkers" Man....the battle scenes were pretty fast, furious and exciting! Lot of 45 firing, too bad it WASNT a 45 Luger.

Edward Tinker · 03-16-2003, 08:18 PM

I saw that, pretty good movie, more violent than I expected, overall worth watching. I don't know how true it was, with the shoot the guy so he doesn't get taken by the Japanese?

Ed

Thor · 03-16-2003, 11:21 PM

WINDTALKERS makes a good case for the Thompson 45 in that type of combat, or so it seems. Also watched ESCAPE FROM SOBIBOR, lots of P.38 and Luger firing. Movie is a little tough to watch but it is good to see the oppressed fight back against the bad guys.

Don · 03-16-2003, 11:29 PM

I loved Nicholas Cage's Thompsons -- a 1921 with drum mag at the first of the movie, and then a 1928 for the majority of the film. Only problem is one that often bothers me in movies -- no recoil. Cage fires a Thompson on full auto with one hand, and there's no muzzle climb. Kind of like when I was kid and watched cowboy movies and the six shooters shot hundreds of rounds without reloading!

Navy · 03-17-2003, 08:03 AM

Re: Muzzle climb on a Thompson.

Gents,
Havent seen the movie but, if the Tommy has the Cutts compensator, (1921/28 AC) there is negligible muzzle climb, just a sustained gentle rearward push. I have .... shot and sold several Tommys and all were very smooth and very accurate. This often comes a a surprise to a first time Tommygun user. With a drum (referred to by oldtimers as a cookie cutter", the piece is exceptionally stable, although it is sometimes hard to hold it steady because of the giggling that the shooter inevitably does as all those 45 slugs go flying down range.

Tom A

Roadkill · 03-17-2003, 07:55 PM

Had a buddy a few years ago who was the training officer for a Police Department, owed me a favor so he called and told me where to be and when and what to wear, seems H&K were demonstrating their goods for the SWAT team. One of the few times in my life I actually didn't want to shoot any more. There were two HK reps loading magazines as fast as we could empty them. The MP5 (?) was a blast. No climb, just a light push backward like a water hose. After 10 rounds it began a circular rotation from left to right in about a 10" diameter. Rep said it was made to do that. Also had a M3 in RVN, too heavy and slow. Sent it on down the line. Worst I ever fired was a M14 on full auto. AKs are surprisingly manageable. Guy showed up last week with a full auto SP1, paid $8,000 for it, asked if I could show him how to disassemble, clean, ect. Oh well. Long as he's happy with it.

rk

Pelorat · 03-17-2003, 09:10 PM

Yep. Word of warning - never accept an invitation to fire an MP5 unless you have the means to afford one (~$10,000). You *will* want one afterward. And the SD version is even more mouthwatering. =)

I should know, I made that very mistake, hehe.

Don · 03-18-2003, 11:50 PM

Re Muzzle Climb on a Thompson

Good point. I'm pretty sure both guns had Cutts...the Thompson I fired was M1A1, which as you know didn't have a compensator. I've fired an MP5, and the contrast was enormous -- no climb on the H&K.

merc · 03-19-2003, 06:58 PM

Compensator or not, movies rarely show muzzle climb.
But then again only we would look for that.
Most people get into the story and don't notice things like Robert Dinero in the deer hunter aims as a lefty in most of the gun scenes and then aims at the deer as a righty then as a lefty again when chasing the deer.

Roadkill · 03-19-2003, 07:45 PM

I don't remember Vic Morrow cutting his bursts short to pull them back down on target. If it needed a whole clip, it got the whole clip. Wonder how Kirby and the Lieutenant are doing?

The Cast (all five seasons):
Vic Morrow as Sgt. "Chip" Saunders
Rick Jason as Lt. Gil Hanley
Jack Hogan as William G. Kirby
Pierre Jalbert as Caje
Dick Peabody as Littlejohn

rk

Thor · 03-19-2003, 07:56 PM

Sgt Saunders also was in the TWIGHT ZONE MOVIE, which actually has him on a ledge and two SS Officers firing LUGERS at him! A realistic sequence. I loved COMBAT- wish it was on DVD now!
The movie LAST MAN STANDING has sequences of Christoper WALKEN and Bruce Willis firing Colt 1911s and Thompsons up close and personal. LOTS and I mean LOTS of 45 Brass FLYING~!!!!!

John Sabato · 03-20-2003, 10:47 AM

Thor,

In case you don't remember, Vic Morrow was actually killed during the making of that movie...but they finished the movie anyway.

A helicopter rotor blade made short work of him while hovering. it was a tragic accident. He was a good actor...

unspellable · 03-20-2003, 01:56 PM

John, The problem was that the helicopter WASN'T hovering... A pyrotechnic charge threw a clod of dirt into the tail rotor after which things got out of hand.

As for pointing out oopsies in the movies, I saw The Rocketeer in which the bad guys were armed with P38's which entered service in abut 1940 while the scene was set just prior to WWII. Also saw a movie about Rourke's Drift in which the Brits had MKVI Webleys in a scene set in the 1880's or thereabouts.

And there is always the guy screwing a suppressor on a revolver...

Johnny C. Kitchens · 03-20-2003, 09:47 PM

The one that bugged me from the moment I first saw it, although I still liked it. Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark. The Nazis in the movie are armed with P.38s, and the movie takes place in 1936...

Weissen · 03-21-2003, 05:06 AM

Saw a good one the other night on cable.
Someone here on this forum was making a database of movies that contained a bit of Luger action (?), well this is one for that list.
Called 'Rififi' made in 1955 France(yeah I know

) and filmed in Paris.
Film-noir at its best, a heist movie with lots of French cars roaring around Paris at high speed and plenty of gun play with classic old German handguns including a Luger in the main role.
Get it. You'll love it.

<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

JohnF · 03-21-2003, 09:40 AM

My personal favourite from the "not entirely accurate" school of war movie making has to be the Germans driving around in American tanks - Pattons I think - in the Battle of the Bulge. On the other hand, top marks for effort has to go to A Bridge Too Far, in which the armour was at least made to look German and the uniforms were mostly right.

Big Norm · 03-21-2003, 11:16 AM

"Raiders of the Lost Arc" was on TV the other night and I noticed all the P-38's. But what hung me up was the WW1 tank and the civilian German aircraft that were shooting at it. Oh well, it was a fun movie anyway.
Big Norm

Roadkill · 03-21-2003, 11:20 AM

The best one (IMHO) with both Lugers and P38s and historically correct especially for the time the movie was made is "The Iron Cross". Uniforms, weapons, T34s, battle scenes, a**hole officers, and following the book, all very good.

rk

Johnny C. Kitchens · 03-21-2003, 09:06 PM

JohnF

I can forgive the Battle of the Bulge for having the wrong tanks to some extent. Where would they get King Tiger tanks or the technology to put them in the movies in the late 60's. The next time you watch the Battle of the Bulge, watch Henry Fonda shoot the M-1 trying to hit the German tank commander and he misses. Look closely at the M-1 as Henry Fonda aims. There is no rear site at all!!! No wonder he missed...

JFP · 03-22-2003, 11:21 AM

I agree with rk. The most historically correct movie is "Cross of Iron". Just one minor flaw that I could see; the T-34's are 1944 models with an 85mm gun and redesigned turret. The movie depicts the eastern front in mid-1943.

JP

03-16-2003, 07:26 PM	#1
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	OT-Battle Movies <img border="0" alt="[offtopic]" title="" src="graemlins/offtopic.gif" /> Just finished viewing "Windtalkers" Man....the battle scenes were pretty fast, furious and exciting! Lot of 45 firing, too bad it WASNT a 45 Luger. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

03-16-2003, 08:18 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	I saw that, pretty good movie, more violent than I expected, overall worth watching. I don't know how true it was, with the shoot the guy so he doesn't get taken by the Japanese? Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

03-16-2003, 11:21 PM	#3
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	WINDTALKERS makes a good case for the Thompson 45 in that type of combat, or so it seems. Also watched ESCAPE FROM SOBIBOR, lots of P.38 and Luger firing. Movie is a little tough to watch but it is good to see the oppressed fight back against the bad guys. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

03-19-2003, 06:58 PM	#9
merc User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: NH Posts: 51 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Compensator or not, movies rarely show muzzle climb. But then again only we would look for that. Most people get into the story and don't notice things like Robert Dinero in the deer hunter aims as a lefty in most of the gun scenes and then aims at the deer as a righty then as a lefty again when chasing the deer. __________________ Merc Living without liberty is not living

03-19-2003, 07:56 PM	#11
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Sgt Saunders also was in the TWIGHT ZONE MOVIE, which actually has him on a ledge and two SS Officers firing LUGERS at him! A realistic sequence. I loved COMBAT- wish it was on DVD now! The movie LAST MAN STANDING has sequences of Christoper WALKEN and Bruce Willis firing Colt 1911s and Thompsons up close and personal. LOTS and I mean LOTS of 45 Brass FLYING~!!!!! __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

03-16-2003, 11:29 PM	#4
Don User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 146 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I loved Nicholas Cage's Thompsons -- a 1921 with drum mag at the first of the movie, and then a 1928 for the majority of the film. Only problem is one that often bothers me in movies -- no recoil. Cage fires a Thompson on full auto with one hand, and there's no muzzle climb. Kind of like when I was kid and watched cowboy movies and the six shooters shot hundreds of rounds without reloading!

03-17-2003, 08:03 AM	#5
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Re: Muzzle climb on a Thompson. Gents, Havent seen the movie but, if the Tommy has the Cutts compensator, (1921/28 AC) there is negligible muzzle climb, just a sustained gentle rearward push. I have .... shot and sold several Tommys and all were very smooth and very accurate. This often comes a a surprise to a first time Tommygun user. With a drum (referred to by oldtimers as a cookie cutter", the piece is exceptionally stable, although it is sometimes hard to hold it steady because of the giggling that the shooter inevitably does as all those 45 slugs go flying down range. Tom A

03-17-2003, 07:55 PM	#6
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Had a buddy a few years ago who was the training officer for a Police Department, owed me a favor so he called and told me where to be and when and what to wear, seems H&K were demonstrating their goods for the SWAT team. One of the few times in my life I actually didn't want to shoot any more. There were two HK reps loading magazines as fast as we could empty them. The MP5 (?) was a blast. No climb, just a light push backward like a water hose. After 10 rounds it began a circular rotation from left to right in about a 10" diameter. Rep said it was made to do that. Also had a M3 in RVN, too heavy and slow. Sent it on down the line. Worst I ever fired was a M14 on full auto. AKs are surprisingly manageable. Guy showed up last week with a full auto SP1, paid $8,000 for it, asked if I could show him how to disassemble, clean, ect. Oh well. Long as he's happy with it. rk

03-17-2003, 09:10 PM	#7
Pelorat User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: North Charleston, SC Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yep. Word of warning - never accept an invitation to fire an MP5 unless you have the means to afford one (~$10,000). You will want one afterward. And the SD version is even more mouthwatering. =) I should know, I made that very mistake, hehe.

03-18-2003, 11:50 PM	#8
Don User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 146 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re Muzzle Climb on a Thompson Good point. I'm pretty sure both guns had Cutts...the Thompson I fired was M1A1, which as you know didn't have a compensator. I've fired an MP5, and the contrast was enormous -- no climb on the H&K.

03-19-2003, 07:45 PM	#10
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	I don't remember Vic Morrow cutting his bursts short to pull them back down on target. If it needed a whole clip, it got the whole clip. Wonder how Kirby and the Lieutenant are doing? The Cast (all five seasons): Vic Morrow as Sgt. "Chip" Saunders Rick Jason as Lt. Gil Hanley Jack Hogan as William G. Kirby Pierre Jalbert as Caje Dick Peabody as Littlejohn rk

03-20-2003, 10:47 AM	#12
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Thor, In case you don't remember, Vic Morrow was actually killed during the making of that movie...but they finished the movie anyway. A helicopter rotor blade made short work of him while hovering. it was a tragic accident. He was a good actor... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-20-2003, 01:56 PM	#13
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 10 Posts	John, The problem was that the helicopter WASN'T hovering... A pyrotechnic charge threw a clod of dirt into the tail rotor after which things got out of hand. As for pointing out oopsies in the movies, I saw The Rocketeer in which the bad guys were armed with P38's which entered service in abut 1940 while the scene was set just prior to WWII. Also saw a movie about Rourke's Drift in which the Brits had MKVI Webleys in a scene set in the 1880's or thereabouts. And there is always the guy screwing a suppressor on a revolver...

03-20-2003, 09:47 PM	#14
Johnny C. Kitchens User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Arlington, Texas Posts: 518 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 8 Posts	The one that bugged me from the moment I first saw it, although I still liked it. Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark. The Nazis in the movie are armed with P.38s, and the movie takes place in 1936... __________________ Johnny C. Kitchens

03-21-2003, 05:06 AM	#15
Weissen User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: South Australia Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Saw a good one the other night on cable. Someone here on this forum was making a database of movies that contained a bit of Luger action (?), well this is one for that list. Called 'Rififi' made in 1955 France(yeah I know ) and filmed in Paris. Film-noir at its best, a heist movie with lots of French cars roaring around Paris at high speed and plenty of gun play with classic old German handguns including a Luger in the main role. Get it. You'll love it. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

03-21-2003, 09:40 AM	#16
JohnF User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: UK Posts: 167 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	My personal favourite from the "not entirely accurate" school of war movie making has to be the Germans driving around in American tanks - Pattons I think - in the Battle of the Bulge. On the other hand, top marks for effort has to go to A Bridge Too Far, in which the armour was at least made to look German and the uniforms were mostly right.

03-21-2003, 11:16 AM	#17
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	"Raiders of the Lost Arc" was on TV the other night and I noticed all the P-38's. But what hung me up was the WW1 tank and the civilian German aircraft that were shooting at it. Oh well, it was a fun movie anyway. Big Norm

03-21-2003, 11:20 AM	#18
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	The best one (IMHO) with both Lugers and P38s and historically correct especially for the time the movie was made is "The Iron Cross". Uniforms, weapons, T34s, battle scenes, a**hole officers, and following the book, all very good. rk

03-21-2003, 09:06 PM	#19
Johnny C. Kitchens User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Arlington, Texas Posts: 518 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 8 Posts	JohnF I can forgive the Battle of the Bulge for having the wrong tanks to some extent. Where would they get King Tiger tanks or the technology to put them in the movies in the late 60's. The next time you watch the Battle of the Bulge, watch Henry Fonda shoot the M-1 trying to hit the German tank commander and he misses. Look closely at the M-1 as Henry Fonda aims. There is no rear site at all!!! No wonder he missed... __________________ Johnny C. Kitchens

03-22-2003, 11:21 AM	#20
JFP User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: stamford, CT Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I agree with rk. The most historically correct movie is "Cross of Iron". Just one minor flaw that I could see; the T-34's are 1944 models with an 85mm gun and redesigned turret. The movie depicts the eastern front in mid-1943. JP