Please help identify and estimate value.(DWM)

[ben1620]

This is my first Luger and i cant find anything about it. I really dont know what i have so any & all info/history/value would be very appreciated. It looks like it's barely been fired and has 39 stamped all over. You can kinda see the Waffenamt stamp on the holster. Thanks

[RockinWR]

Hi Ben,
* Welcome to the Forum.
* I think your P.08, S/N 1039v, was assembled by Mauser out of components they received from DWM when the two plants were consolidated in Oberndorf in the early 1930's. The pistol was produced for a commercial contract. I'll let the more well versed expand on this period of production.
* Your pistol bears a sear safety. This is the small riveted flat spring sitting on top of the side plate on the L/H side of the pistol. This typically indicates issue to and use by the German police. The Police were considered a commercial end user although, during WWII, their assignments could border on quasi-Military (Austria-1938, Sudentenland-1939, etc).
* Your Army style holster was coded "eue" for the Manufacturer, Otto Reichel Lederwarenfabrik from the towns Lengefeld/Erzgebirge in the latter half of 1940. It would post date the pistol's date of manufacture by at least 4 years.
* Trust this helps get the ball rolling.
Respectfully,
Bob

[ben1620]

Thanks a ton Bob. This is definately a good start. I appreceiate the background info as well. Also, it's chambered for a 7.65mm if that helps.

[ben1620]

I expected to get more response from this post. Maybe everyone here is stumped? Does anyone know where else i might list this gun to find somemore info? Thanks

[lugerholsterrepair]

Ben, I expected to get more response from this post. Here's a suggestion ...Buy a couple thousand dollars worth of books and study them like the rest of us. Two day post over the weekend and your disapointed? You want to go somewhere else for more information? Google might help you out.
This really is a society that expects, nay demands instant gratification. Patience is a virtue, posses it if you can...Jerry Burney

[ben1620]

I said nothing of being disapointed and like i posted before, I am very grateful for the info that Bob gave me. I have ordered a couple of books and i have searched the internet everyday for the past month, but i find nothing like it. I posted here because of the expertise i have seen throughout the forum; that is also the reason i was surprised that after nearly 100 views it appears some people are stumped. I meant no disrespect.

Bob thank you again. The info you provided has gotten me closer to identifying this gun than ever before, due to new ideas for searching google and narrowing down the date of production.

[Edward Tinker]

Ben welcome to the forum. Don't mind Jerry, but also be nicer and have a thicker skin, plus patience. I doubt you'll get much better posts anywhere else, except possibly at Jan Still's forum (and I moderate there to, so...)

I simply have not had time this weekend and I am sure it is the same as others. Many folks could not "top" Bobs response so they figure why try.

The resident expert and one of the best to ask about holsters is Jerry (people from all over the world have him fix their holsters to as new), so... You might notice that your magazine pouch on it has a different "skin", it appears to be pig, while the rest is cow hide.

The sear safety was installed after 1934, and quit being put on in the 1940's. Yours does not appear to have received a magazine safety (many police guns do not have these, but many do).

Your luger is interesting to me (I collect police lugers), it has mauser era proofs with the DWM toggle and the suffix is towards the end that they put DWM toggles on those lugers...


Ed

[lugerholsterrepair]

Gosh, I thought I was being helpful. I guess no good deed goes unpunished.
How is the following rude?
Buy books and study them.
don't expect immediate results when you Post on a weekend when everyone who has a life is living it.
Google the subject and see what you come up with.
Have patience.
Like a petulant child, you are not handed everything on a silver platter so you attack those who give you suggestions.
Jerry Burney

[ben1620]

Thank you Ed and Jerry for the good advice. I'll keep digging.

Are there any locations on the gun where i should look for more clues? Under the grips or somewhere inside?
Thanks

[Pete Ebbink]

Ben,

Over on Jan Still's Gun Boards, member Joop from Belgium, has done quite a study and database collection on the "v' series of Mauser commercial Lugers.

Here are two discussion topics that may giv eyou more info. You can also reach joop through the gun Board's email feature if you click on a member's profile.

You may have to register on the Gun Boards before you can access the info. It is free to join...just like here on the Luger Forum :

http://luger.gunboards.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6270

http://luger.gunboards.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8981

[RockinWR]

Hi Ben,
* I know how exciting it is to have a "first" Luger. Congratulations. I thank you for sharing it with us.
* I know too the excrutiating ache to know "All about IT" after taking pictures and planning on what to say/ask in posting for info. I trust you will be amazed at the work done by Joop through the URL's provided by Pete.
* As for Jerry, he's probably just frustrated he can't have time to properly tell you all about the holster you've pictured. And ask a kazillion questions of you about it as well. Being technically inclined like Jerry, I'm often reminded how a quality, factual answer takes far more time than it takes to ask an innocent question. As Ed has noted, there are some differences from the norm we are use to seeing on your "eue". OBTW, the WaA300 is the Army Inspector's mark for the holster. Is it stamped P.08 on the L/H back as well?
* As for markings to look for: Do you notice any markings on the R/H side of the receiver, R/H side of the barrel near the root, or top L/H side of the barrel?? I also would look at the Mag(s) body(s)/plug(s) for acceptance stamps, numeral, and letters. By chance, are they matching numbered mags??
* Hope this helps...and again, welcome.
Respectfully,
Bob

[Pete Ebbink]

Bob,

Is the C/C/U in its "upright" position rare on this early DWM-Mauser transitional Luger ?

[Lugerdoc]

Ben, I have owned a couple of these early V suffix (pre Banner) commericals over the years and they were both 9mm. I can't imagine a Police accepted one in 7.65mmP. Unless your original barrel has been relined, I would bet that it is (or was originally) a 9mmP. TH

[Jamka]

Ben,

I could not touch a PC for one week (family holidays) and upon returning I see some mails from collectors that pointed me to your Pistol # 1039v.
It has not been reported before so it must have been laying in a drawer for a long time.
You have a so called 'Oberndorf 1934' commercial. It was assembled by Mauser in the early thirties, using the parts that came from Berlin in May 1930; just as Bob has been stating above.

This type of Luger can be recognized by the following properties:
1. A big Crown/crown/U commercial proof (Oberndorf Proof House); struck vertically next to the SN on the left receiver (I never saw the Proofmark struck through the SN before, I would like to have some detailed pictures of that spot)
2. Also a big Cc/U proofstamp under the barrel above the serial number above 'v'.
3. A smaller Cc/U on the left side of the breechblock.
4. The DWM Logo on the toggle, no marking on the chamber.
5. The barrel is 4" and has the 9mm caliber.
6. The main serial numbers are struck with rather big 'serif' characters.

Lowest SN found: 630v - Highest SN found: 1679v
Reported: 38 pistols, of which 5 have a sear safety.
(in this range also some Stoeger- and Swiss contracts are found).

So far so good. Your Luger has only one part that does not match this well established picture: the caliber is 7.65mm... On the picture above the barrel looks quite original to me, also the wittness mark seems to be the first one applied.

But: The German Police did not use the 7.65mm cartridge. I have only seen one and only one other Luger that has a sear safety and an original 7.65mm barrel, that was a Swedish commercial; issued in 1940 of 1941.

So you have a mysterious Oberndorf 1934 there. Please check the barrel again; it puzzles me...

[Dwight Gruber]

Joop,

From the photos above it looks like the receiver serial number (haloed) has been stamped -over- the proof (not haloed).

Ben,

Are the takedown lever and trigger plate numbered on their bottom edges in addition to their face numbers?

--Dwight

[Jamka]

Dwight,

Indeed, it seems that the SN under the barrel and on the front of the frame have been struck before the proof test (as it should be done). After blueing the SN on the left receiver was struck in a rather rude way.
It is a pity that I do not have a good example of a 1934 Oberndorf for a close examination. I have to rely on a few old pictures...

[ben1620]

Thank you guys so much for everything; until looking at Joop's post i couldnt really grasp how many variations there are and how hard identifying them may be. Your're right about this gun sitting in a drawer for 30 years. Here's a pic of the clips(sry i thought i had posted them earlier).
and one of the takedown lever. Also, about the caliber, all i know is that gently i tried to chamber a regular 9mm shell and it didnt happen. I dont have a 7.65 to try. I dont think there is anything on clip body but the gun is my parents safe so i'll have to go get it when i get the chance. I can post extreme close ups of these pics i do have, so let me know. Thank again

[Jamka]

Ben,

For the moment Your Luger SN 1039v is classified as a:

- Oberndorf 1934 (assembled by Mauser), having three distinctive properties that are not found on the 38 pistols reported before:

1. The serial number on the left receiver is stamped after the proofing and blueing
2. It has an orginal looking barrel with a 7.65mm caliber
3. It has a sear safety (Police issue); normally not found with this caliber.

If you can take some more close pictures I would like to see:
- detailed pictures of the barrel-receiver junction with the witness mark
- close up of the SN stamp on the left receiver

The two matching magazines are very nice - the wooden bottoms are not damaged and they confirm the early issue to the German Police.

[John Sabato]

Ben,

Just a comment to add to Jerry's ...

We have almost 5000 registered users on this forum... about 10-15 percent of them are occassional posters... but my guess is that only about 1-5 percent are what you might call RKI or reasonably knowledgeable individuals about Lugers (expert is such a misused term)... as Jerry pointed out, your responses in the time mentioned is more than reasonable... and you will likely have more as time passes. Personally, I can only get logged in and review postings about once a week... even though I would love to do that every day.

If you have Joop's comments on your Luger... it wont get much better than that!

Welcome to the Lugerforum.

[Jamka]

John,

Too much honour for this humbly student of the Mauser Banner Lugers...
However; coming from you I do appreciate this compliment very much. I hope to meet you during the NAPCA convention in Chattanooga next August.