Stoeger P-08

[Mark]

Gruss Gott!

I just wanted to say " thanks " to

Heer Jerry Boyle for his posting.I found

it both informative with regard to the stainless pistols and pleasing to the

eye to be allowed to view the many photos.I agree that it isn't quite the same thing to behold an original piece

of history as it is to have one's hands

on a Stoeger or Mitchell,but they are

true enough copies to give one the feel

without ( as Jerry points out ) having

those guilt pangs about firing the vet

weapons. I have a Mitchell Arms 4"-Army

and now a Stoeger 6"-Navy ( which I just

got last Sat. at a Crossroads of the West gun show, but haven't yet had the

opportunity to fire- maybe tomorrow! ).

I also have a 1917 Erfurt and a 1936

S42 ( Mauser ).The Erfurt remains unfired by me, though I would say it

has seen some duty.I would say it's in

about 85% condition.All matching parts,

including the magazine.The '36 Mauser I

have fired,but I think it was the first

and perhaps last time.It's too beautiful

to screw up!!The blueing and straw are

basically mint.I just can't see destroy-

ing such a fine work of original art by

subjecting it to unnecessary rigors!!

Anyway,I just wanted to say thanks to

Jerry and all the rest of you out there

that make this site possible.A big

thanks to the founder!!!

I'll definitely be back to bother one

and all again! 'Till then!


Tschuss! Mark

[Mark]

Gruss Gott, Rick !

Thanks for the info.! I've got the 4"-army

Mitchell and it had problems from the start.

Even though they're made by the same Co. out

of houston, I hope the Stoeger won't exhibit the same lapses in function. The " Mitchell " is working fine now, after having been returned for reworking.

It's a pleasure to shoot when all goes smoothly.

You mentioned that you had pistols made by this

same company.I guess they're marketed under more names than I'm familiar with.I knew about Mitchell

and Stoeger,but American is news to me.

I wonder if you would be so kind as to answer

one question for me? The " Mitchell Arms " P-08

has received some scoring or indintations on the

camming section of the frame. Have you noticed

anything similar,or is this limited to my edition?

If not,does it pose any problem or will it reach

its point of action and then stop erroding the frame? I know it's somewhat technical a question,

and I don't expect you to have a myriad of spread

design drawings and such in front of you,but I am

curious to know if you have seen anything similar

on your pistols.

Thanks for your good wishes for my first session with the " Navy ". I hope all goes smoothly. I

hope to hear from you regarding the scarring of the

frame on these Houston made guns. I have two of

them on order! Danke!


Tschuss! Mark

[Dok]

and while John Chapman who started the forum back in 1998 no longer participates, we are all pleased that the forum lives on, and gives us a place to hang our hats, and share knowledge and friendship. You are a welcome addition to the site Mark, glad to have you on board.

[Kyrie]

Hi Rick,


If I'm getting an accurate mental image, this is the area of the frame that servers as the ramp to "break" the knee of the toggle. Excessive wear in this area will first cause functioning problems, and will eventually render the firearm unusable. This is the same area that suffers when the main spring become weak, or over-power ammunition is used in a Luger


Best regards,


Kyrie

[Kyrie]

Hi Rick,


My pleasure


It doesn't sound like there is a problem - a little burnishing is to be expected. It's when it gets to the point of deforming the meatl that we are getting into serious trouble.


Best regards,


Kyrie

[Mark]

Gruss Gott!

Thanks to Rick and Kyrie for your

input on my questions and concerns

regarding the indintations on the frame

cams of the Mitchell.It shows on the

rear of the frame,but I don't see any

equivilant on the toggle knobs themselves.This isn't a mere abrasion

on the frame cam.It has rounded out a

small area.However,after yesterdays shoot,which went very nicely,by the way,

I don't notice that it has progressed

noticably further.But then my eyes aren't what they used to be in my younger days.

The new Stoeger "Navy" shot quite well,as long as it liked the ammo.It,too

already shows some sign of indenting at

the same point on the frame.I find it

difficult to fathom how two pistols would have the same problems with poorly

functioning springs when they're (were)

both new out of the box,but then I'm

really a novice with these works of

art.I'll keep my eye on them to see how

they progress (degress).

Thanks for all your help in trying to understand what's going on with my "babies".I'll continue now to read on

in the forum and undoubtedly be further

amazed by the willingness of all of you to help out!Thanks!


Tschuss! Mark

[Kyrie]

Hi Mark,


Just purely FYI...


Cartridges from the same lot and even the same box will not produce the same pressure curves in different firearms. Among the things that determine the actual pressure curve produced by each cartridge are bore, throat, and bore size and condition, temperature of the propellant and the primer at the instant of ignition, and even the position of the propellant in the cartridge case. These factors can be cumulative, producing differences in peak chamber pressures in the thousands (and sometimes the tens of thousands) of P.S.I.


If you see differences in the wear pattern on two Lugers being feed the same ammunition those differences may be due to the above and to differences in how well the recoil spring is wearing.


Regarding the excessive wear you are seeing on the toggle ramp, there is a problem of some kind present. It may be excessive pressure ammunition, a worn recoil spring, or a material problem with the pistol itself (the stainless steel Lugers are, alas, known for material problems). I'd strongly suggest determining and correcting the problem. If left to itself, it's only going to get worse :-(


Hope this helps.


Best regards,


Kyrie

[Ted]

I think Jerry is very busy and doesnt participate as much as he would like to! We miss you Jerry, come join us next year at RALPHS!! I think this will be an annual event! Ralph and Nancy Shattuck put on one heck of a good time! Ted

[Patrick]

Kenyon (Lugers at Random) page 296 shows a Mauser Prototype: â??... the cam ramps are slightly peened from the continued action of the toggle knobs.â?� This also happened to my first DWM Luger. Eventually, the receiver started to bind within the frame. I had to carefully remove the excess metal from the inside of the cam ramps with a whetstone. The DWM and Mauser production tables (printed in G�¶rtz: Die Pistole 08) show that metallurgy had progressed during WWI by the time Mauser started production. I had also been using commercial ammunition with too high a charge. Patrick