Serial Number Technical Question <img BORDER="0" src='http://boards.rennlist.com/luger/pic.gif'>

Luke · 03-18-2002, 02:07 PM

Having seen 3 Lugers on which the frame and barrel serial numbers are somewhat different, I am wondering what, if anything, this means. The attached photo shows the serial numbers for an early Mauser. The fonts have the same basic design, but the barrel fonts are taller and slimmer, whereas the frame fonts are shorter and wider. The photo is an accurate representation of the relative sizes and shapes.

Of the three Lugers I have seen which have clearly different fonts on the barrel and frame, one of them had a "3" in the serial number. The "3" on the barrel had a flat top, and the "3" on the frame had a round top ! ! !

This early Mauser is not expensive enough to have a sufficiently high payback for someone to change the barrel and renumber it, so I can just about rule out a this gun as a counterfeit. In addition, the barrel really appears to be in exactly the same condition (wear, level of blue, etc.) as the frame.

Does anyone know for sure if the serial numbers were placed on these parts at the same time by the same tools, or were they applied in different operations by different people in the Luger manufacturing process?

Thanks for any help you can provide.

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/FrameandBarrelSN.jpg

03-18-2002, 02:14 PM

Once upon a long time ago I worked for a welding fabrication shop. My first job was to stamp a 9 digit alphanumeric serial number on metal parts for rocket transport motors. What you have looks exactly what some I did looked like. Same guy, same punches, same hammer, sore hands at end of day. I don't know the answer to your question but I do know what its like after 8-10 hrs to be stamping parts.

Roadkil

Marvin · 03-18-2002, 02:20 PM

Luke,

It is my opinion that the barrel and frame S/N were not put on at the same time (could be wrong as I was not there) and the stamps used were continually being replaced from wear. This replacement counts for some of the variations in numbers. I agree with you that the common Luger from Mauser would not be worth he time to renumber

You have hit one thing about the "flat top" and "round top" threes (3). There was a big discussion of this in the NAPCA Newsletter several years ago and the combination of "threes" is original.

The pistol sure looks nice form the photos of the stamps!

Marvin

Orv Reichert · 03-18-2002, 02:38 PM

Different styles and fonts are common on P38's, too. [round-flat 3's....open-closed 4's...etc]

Different stamps at different places, I guess? They did not pay as much attention to such trivia as we do!

Orv Reichert

Luke · 03-18-2002, 02:41 PM

Just noticed that the receiver has the same number fonts as the barrel. Only the frame fonts appear different.

bill m · 03-18-2002, 03:45 PM

Hi Luke,

Your observation is the same on all Mausers. They used different size dies and different style dies for different parts. If your Mauser Luger HAD the same style 3 on all the parts it would be a fake! I'm not exactly sure of the answer, but it has to do when the parts were assembled in the white, and then numbered and disassembled to blue, and then re-assembled again. These Lugers were not assmebled, numbered, stamped and blued by just one big dipping in a tub while completely assembled all at the same time. They had to have big racks of barrels, frames, parts, that were assembled in the white -- then accepted and test fired, then dis-assembled, numbered, and blued, and then assembled again, is my opinion on why the different style fonts and ect. Had to take a lot of time to do this, but that is why the fit and workmanship was so good. Hope that helps answers some of your questions. -- Bill M

03-19-2002, 10:26 AM

Luke, The narrow aspect (skinny) font dies that you show on your barrel were used exclusively on the K, G & early 1936 PO8s. By early 36 you will see some mixture of die types, with the wider set, first showing up on frames. Tom h

Luke · 03-19-2002, 10:54 AM

This picture is, in fact, a 1936 Mauser.

I still wonder about the GENERAL case where the the fonts on the barrel do not match those on the frame, especially with DWMs.

Recently saw a DWM Navy with 3 of the 4 digits on the barrel noticeably different from those on the frame.

03-18-2002, 02:07 PM	#1
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	Serial Number Technical Question Having seen 3 Lugers on which the frame and barrel serial numbers are somewhat different, I am wondering what, if anything, this means. The attached photo shows the serial numbers for an early Mauser. The fonts have the same basic design, but the barrel fonts are taller and slimmer, whereas the frame fonts are shorter and wider. The photo is an accurate representation of the relative sizes and shapes. Of the three Lugers I have seen which have clearly different fonts on the barrel and frame, one of them had a "3" in the serial number. The "3" on the barrel had a flat top, and the "3" on the frame had a round top ! ! ! This early Mauser is not expensive enough to have a sufficiently high payback for someone to change the barrel and renumber it, so I can just about rule out a this gun as a counterfeit. In addition, the barrel really appears to be in exactly the same condition (wear, level of blue, etc.) as the frame. Does anyone know for sure if the serial numbers were placed on these parts at the same time by the same tools, or were they applied in different operations by different people in the Luger manufacturing process? Thanks for any help you can provide. http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/FrameandBarrelSN.jpg

03-18-2002, 02:14 PM	#2
R. Grady/Roadkill Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Serial Number Technical Question Once upon a long time ago I worked for a welding fabrication shop. My first job was to stamp a 9 digit alphanumeric serial number on metal parts for rocket transport motors. What you have looks exactly what some I did looked like. Same guy, same punches, same hammer, sore hands at end of day. I don't know the answer to your question but I do know what its like after 8-10 hrs to be stamping parts. Roadkil

03-18-2002, 02:20 PM	#3
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Serial Number Technical Question Luke, It is my opinion that the barrel and frame S/N were not put on at the same time (could be wrong as I was not there) and the stamps used were continually being replaced from wear. This replacement counts for some of the variations in numbers. I agree with you that the common Luger from Mauser would not be worth he time to renumber You have hit one thing about the "flat top" and "round top" threes (3). There was a big discussion of this in the NAPCA Newsletter several years ago and the combination of "threes" is original. The pistol sure looks nice form the photos of the stamps! Marvin

03-18-2002, 02:38 PM	#4
Orv Reichert RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SW Washington State Posts: 339 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Serial Numbers Different styles and fonts are common on P38's, too. [round-flat 3's....open-closed 4's...etc] Different stamps at different places, I guess? They did not pay as much attention to such trivia as we do! Orv Reichert

03-18-2002, 02:41 PM	#5
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	Re: Serial Number Technical Question Just noticed that the receiver has the same number fonts as the barrel. Only the frame fonts appear different.

03-18-2002, 03:45 PM	#6
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Fonts Hi Luke, Your observation is the same on all Mausers. They used different size dies and different style dies for different parts. If your Mauser Luger HAD the same style 3 on all the parts it would be a fake! I'm not exactly sure of the answer, but it has to do when the parts were assembled in the white, and then numbered and disassembled to blue, and then re-assembled again. These Lugers were not assmebled, numbered, stamped and blued by just one big dipping in a tub while completely assembled all at the same time. They had to have big racks of barrels, frames, parts, that were assembled in the white -- then accepted and test fired, then dis-assembled, numbered, and blued, and then assembled again, is my opinion on why the different style fonts and ect. Had to take a lot of time to do this, but that is why the fit and workmanship was so good. Hope that helps answers some of your questions. -- Bill M

03-19-2002, 10:26 AM	#7
tom h Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Serial Number Technical Question Luke, The narrow aspect (skinny) font dies that you show on your barrel were used exclusively on the K, G & early 1936 PO8s. By early 36 you will see some mixture of die types, with the wider set, first showing up on frames. Tom h

03-19-2002, 10:54 AM	#8
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	Great answer, Tom ! ! ! This picture is, in fact, a 1936 Mauser. I still wonder about the GENERAL case where the the fonts on the barrel do not match those on the frame, especially with DWMs. Recently saw a DWM Navy with 3 of the 4 digits on the barrel noticeably different from those on the frame.