First Luger. Help!

Boilermaker · 07-16-2020, 10:44 PM

First post, first Luger. Bought this Luger, wish I had found this forum and learned more before doing so, just always wanted one.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/859675320

Most concerned about the fact that the font on the 4 and the 5 on the takedown lever don't match the markings on the rest of the pistol.

Paid $2,200. How bad did I screw up?

Many thanks.

Andrew

tomaustin · 07-16-2020, 11:19 PM

welcome aboard......please review the faq's above and review how to post a bunch of pictures....then take every surface and photograph with the suggested settings....posting those will assist the exemplary minds that lurk around here....pick a neutral background to pose the weapon..this will allow the best viewing opportunity......Tom

grantman · 07-17-2020, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boilermaker

First post, first Luger. Bought this Luger, wish I had found this forum and learned more before doing so, just always wanted one.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/859675320

Most concerned about the fact that the font on the 4 and the 5 on the takedown lever don't match the markings on the rest of the pistol.

Paid $2,200. How bad did I screw up?

Many thanks.

Andrew

This looks like a very nice, all-matching gun. More experience than I on this forum could tell you more. If you value the gun more than the 2200.00, you have done just fine.

Proofed · 07-17-2020, 04:59 AM

Welcome, nice pistol

If all the pics from the ad are not on the disc, make sure you save them all from g-broker (before they are gone) as they are very well made and completely document your luger. The seller should be ok with that since you bought the pistol.

Did you screw up.?
When you get the pistol in hand and you are very happy owning it, then no you didn't.
If you look at it with reservation or are unhappy with it, then you screwed up.

DonVoigt · 07-17-2020, 08:27 AM

Looks ok to me.
Top price paid for a 1916 with no matching magazine.

With 149 pictures and a page of description, you sure didn't have to wonder about the
condition!

Boilermaker · 07-17-2020, 11:17 AM

Thanks, everyone. Sounds like I did okay!

The seller sent me a disc with all the pics along with a nice writeup.

Doubs · 07-17-2020, 11:39 AM

There is one anomaly; the locking block (take down lever) is numbered in both the commercial (underside) and military (on the side) style. Both numbers are 45 and seem to be the same font so maybe a factory mistake that was corrected? No way to know for sure.

Otherwise it's a great looking 1916 DWM Luger.

Lyn Islaub · 07-18-2020, 03:39 PM

I was going to mention the takedown lever being serialized in two places too. I have several military post 1912 Imperial lugers in my collection and none are marked in two places on the takedown lever. That would make me suspect that the lever has been replaced and renumbered. Can't see DWM using commercial parts this deep into WW!. Ron Wood would know best.
Lyn

hayhugh · 07-18-2020, 04:08 PM

The owner mention that the fount is different on the take down lever then the other number on the gun but no one else said anything about that. Open verses closed "4"...

Edward Tinker · 07-18-2020, 07:32 PM

Although 'anything' is possible - I would say the take down lever was replaced - who knows when - but when you go to sell it, it will be an issue to somebody, that is for sure.

And, I'd say the commercial (stamping) one has been restamped....

Heinz · 07-18-2020, 07:41 PM

Hugh, I was also troubled by the closed four and double stamping on the take down lever. And I do not understand the 48 on the frame by the lug. It also has a closed 4. Could be a rack number.

I like the photos. Shows a dealer who is not trying to hide anything.

As to the non-matching magazines, I believe Fred Datig said finding a matching magazine was suspicious in about 1955. So many are now forced matched or faked I think unmatching magazines are almost a badge honor. But I might do a long hunt for that 45 takedown lever with an open 4.

The finish is great and looks original to me

Geo99 · 07-19-2020, 02:12 AM

Heinz,

The OP does not have a non-matching magazine, his gun came with an unmarked magazine (which is different than having a non-matching numbered mag). I believe the description on gunbroker is wrong about the unmarked wood base magazine, and this is probably not an original WWI military magazine. The WWI armorer's replacement mags were marked with a underlined Crown/T or Crown over some letter.

- Geo

Heinz · 07-19-2020, 08:56 AM

Thanks George, I did not know that about the unmarked WW1 magazines. Now I need to buy a new stamp to go with my GT bottoms :-)

mrerick · 07-19-2020, 09:56 AM

Welcome to the forum.

For future reference, download a copy of our forum FAQ. It's quite useful, just follow the FAQ link on every page.

The best way to progress in Luger collecting is first to buy books. They seem expensive until you understand that you'll lose more in paying too much for the wrong Luger. With the reference material, you'll know what you're looking at.

Simpson Ltd publishes the most comprehensive book I've ever seen on Lugers, and, in fact, on any industrial product.

Geoff Sturgess book is worth every penny:

https://simpsonltd.com/the-borchardt...c-pistols-std/

Boilermaker · 07-19-2020, 03:43 PM

Thanks everyone. That is what I was afraid of, a replacement takedown lever. This one is on me, I didn't do my homework. I don't blame the seller, I believe he is honest and it wasn't intentional. Other than that it is in beautiful condition and I don't plan to sell it anyway.

The big question now...What is it worth?

hayhugh · 07-19-2020, 04:53 PM

A non number matching gun is considered a shooter. A gun that is indeed an excellent shooter and in very good condition other wise would sell for around $1000.00. Books on lugers are also expensive but save a person money in the long run.

Heinz · 07-19-2020, 05:43 PM

What was the next lowest bid on GunBroker? Although the folks here would not give over 1000 for it, they are an educated and persnickety group. Mismatched lugers frequently go over 1500 on gunbroker.

Boilermaker · 07-19-2020, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heinz

What was the next lowest bid on GunBroker? Although the folks here would not give over 1000 for it, they are an educated and persnickety group. Mismatched lugers frequently go over 1500 on gunbroker.

I bought it outside of Gunbroker for $2,200 shipped. I'm still pleased with it as it is in great condition and the bore is fantastic and that is what I wanted, a nice WW1 pistol with a good bore.

wlyon · 07-19-2020, 06:39 PM

If your happy with it closed 4's open4's who cares. It is a nice luger. In a couple years the price will look correct. Just enjoy!! Bill

07-16-2020, 10:44 PM	#1
Boilermaker New User Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 4 Thanks: 1 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	First Luger. Help! First post, first Luger. Bought this Luger, wish I had found this forum and learned more before doing so, just always wanted one. https://www.gunbroker.com/item/859675320 Most concerned about the fact that the font on the 4 and the 5 on the takedown lever don't match the markings on the rest of the pistol. Paid $2,200. How bad did I screw up? Many thanks. Andrew

07-17-2020, 04:59 AM	#4
Proofed User Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Pa. Posts: 157 Thanks: 535 Thanked 338 Times in 90 Posts	Pics Welcome, nice pistol If all the pics from the ad are not on the disc, make sure you save them all from g-broker (before they are gone) as they are very well made and completely document your luger. The seller should be ok with that since you bought the pistol. Did you screw up.? When you get the pistol in hand and you are very happy owning it, then no you didn't. If you look at it with reservation or are unhappy with it, then you screwed up.

07-17-2020, 08:27 AM	#5
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,347 Times in 2,038 Posts	Looks ok to me. Top price paid for a 1916 with no matching magazine. With 149 pictures and a page of description, you sure didn't have to wonder about the condition! __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

07-18-2020, 07:32 PM	#10
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Although 'anything' is possible - I would say the take down lever was replaced - who knows when - but when you go to sell it, it will be an issue to somebody, that is for sure. And, I'd say the commercial (stamping) one has been restamped.... Attached Thumbnails

07-18-2020, 07:41 PM	#11
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	Hugh, I was also troubled by the closed four and double stamping on the take down lever. And I do not understand the 48 on the frame by the lug. It also has a closed 4. Could be a rack number. I like the photos. Shows a dealer who is not trying to hide anything. As to the non-matching magazines, I believe Fred Datig said finding a matching magazine was suspicious in about 1955. So many are now forced matched or faked I think unmatching magazines are almost a badge honor. But I might do a long hunt for that 45 takedown lever with an open 4. The finish is great and looks original to me Last edited by Heinz; 07-19-2020 at 08:47 AM.

07-16-2020, 11:19 PM	#2
tomaustin Lifer X5 Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: texas Posts: 708 Thanks: 87 Thanked 522 Times in 201 Posts	welcome aboard......please review the faq's above and review how to post a bunch of pictures....then take every surface and photograph with the suggested settings....posting those will assist the exemplary minds that lurk around here....pick a neutral background to pose the weapon..this will allow the best viewing opportunity......Tom

07-17-2020, 11:17 AM	#6
Boilermaker New User Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 4 Thanks: 1 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Thanks, everyone. Sounds like I did okay! The seller sent me a disc with all the pics along with a nice writeup.

07-17-2020, 11:39 AM	#7
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	There is one anomaly; the locking block (take down lever) is numbered in both the commercial (underside) and military (on the side) style. Both numbers are 45 and seem to be the same font so maybe a factory mistake that was corrected? No way to know for sure. Otherwise it's a great looking 1916 DWM Luger.

07-18-2020, 03:39 PM	#8
Lyn Islaub Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 435 Thanks: 3 Thanked 152 Times in 72 Posts	I was going to mention the takedown lever being serialized in two places too. I have several military post 1912 Imperial lugers in my collection and none are marked in two places on the takedown lever. That would make me suspect that the lever has been replaced and renumbered. Can't see DWM using commercial parts this deep into WW!. Ron Wood would know best. Lyn

07-18-2020, 04:08 PM	#9
hayhugh User Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Florida/Penna Posts: 882 Thanks: 848 Thanked 507 Times in 270 Posts	The owner mention that the fount is different on the take down lever then the other number on the gun but no one else said anything about that. Open verses closed "4"...

07-19-2020, 02:12 AM	#12
Geo99 User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Whidbey Island WA Posts: 396 Thanks: 100 Thanked 125 Times in 74 Posts	Heinz, The OP does not have a non-matching magazine, his gun came with an unmarked magazine (which is different than having a non-matching numbered mag). I believe the description on gunbroker is wrong about the unmarked wood base magazine, and this is probably not an original WWI military magazine. The WWI armorer's replacement mags were marked with a underlined Crown/T or Crown over some letter. - Geo __________________ "Diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggie, until you can find a rock." - Will Rogers

07-19-2020, 08:56 AM	#13
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	Thanks George, I did not know that about the unmarked WW1 magazines. Now I need to buy a new stamp to go with my GT bottoms :-)

07-19-2020, 09:56 AM	#14
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Welcome to the forum. For future reference, download a copy of our forum FAQ. It's quite useful, just follow the FAQ link on every page. The best way to progress in Luger collecting is first to buy books. They seem expensive until you understand that you'll lose more in paying too much for the wrong Luger. With the reference material, you'll know what you're looking at. Simpson Ltd publishes the most comprehensive book I've ever seen on Lugers, and, in fact, on any industrial product. Geoff Sturgess book is worth every penny: https://simpsonltd.com/the-borchardt...c-pistols-std/ __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

07-19-2020, 03:43 PM	#15
Boilermaker New User Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 4 Thanks: 1 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Thanks everyone. That is what I was afraid of, a replacement takedown lever. This one is on me, I didn't do my homework. I don't blame the seller, I believe he is honest and it wasn't intentional. Other than that it is in beautiful condition and I don't plan to sell it anyway. The big question now...What is it worth?

07-19-2020, 04:53 PM	#16
hayhugh User Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Florida/Penna Posts: 882 Thanks: 848 Thanked 507 Times in 270 Posts	A non number matching gun is considered a shooter. A gun that is indeed an excellent shooter and in very good condition other wise would sell for around $1000.00. Books on lugers are also expensive but save a person money in the long run.

07-19-2020, 05:43 PM	#17
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	What was the next lowest bid on GunBroker? Although the folks here would not give over 1000 for it, they are an educated and persnickety group. Mismatched lugers frequently go over 1500 on gunbroker.

07-19-2020, 06:39 PM	#19
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,614 Thanks: 3,140 Thanked 2,519 Times in 939 Posts	If your happy with it closed 4's open4's who cares. It is a nice luger. In a couple years the price will look correct. Just enjoy!! Bill __________________ Bill Lyon