Not all the cheap deals are gone

Jimbo · 03-25-2006, 06:19 AM

Cheapest Luger I've bought was $750 about 4 years ago, a byf 41 almost all matching except for the wrong sideplate (correct numbers stamped outside but the inside numbers didn't match my gun).

Here's a decent little mismatched shooter for under $600. I thought these deals were dead and gone unless you found a little old lady trying to get the nasty gun out of the house. The only things I've seen under $600 were the "basket case" variety.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976699314.htm

I realize this isn't one of those glamorous posts about the latest one-of-a-kind Krieghoff, but bottom feeders need love too!

andersG · 03-26-2006, 04:19 AM

i just bought my luger here in sweden for $375.
Its an manufactured in 1942, the only mismatched thing is the magazine...

it seems that luger are cheaper here in europe. But mine was a bargain, it should maybe cost like $450 for a luger like mine.

i should attachment a pic of mine, but i havent found out how to do it.

Anders

var99 · 03-26-2006, 08:41 AM

HI Jimbo,

May have some good news for you re your byf, the number on the inside of the sideplate, almost never matches the last 2 numbers of the serial. It is sometimes the first two numbers, sometimes a number higher, often totally different, check out the recent discussion on this topic on Jan Still's site.

regards,

Vince

Jimbo · 03-27-2006, 12:58 AM

var99,

Thanks for the reminder, I knew that at one time and totally forgot.

The nside is "34" and the serial is 3377. I was marveling at the coincidence that the 77's stamped on the sideplate were identical to the 77's on the receiver.

Thanks again for the reminder! I thought I got a good deal on that little gun. Even the small blood-stain is a good reminder of the price people paid so I could eventually own this weary specimen. No such thing as a bad luger. Even the ones chromed by WWII vets are the product of the history of that war and are as valid a piece of history as a mint original. Of course, I prefer the mint originals, but I respect the vets even when they chromed or bubba'd their gun

John Sabato · 03-27-2006, 12:03 PM

If the numbers inside your sideplate are 34, this gun is not mismatched. It was common to stamp one number higher than the first two digits of the serial number on the inside of the sideplate for this model Luger... I don't know why, just that they did... Congrats on an all matching Luger.

Pete Ebbink · 03-27-2006, 12:13 PM

Jim,

Haven't seen you posting for a while. Glad to see you're around.

The seller, Bob Adams, has a good, solid reputation.

Jimbo · 03-28-2006, 03:38 AM

Thanks John. You guys taught me that before but my Luger collecting Hiatus has gone on so long, I had forgotten it. Haven't bought bought one in a few years but my little collection is still a source of pride and joy.

I have a new Nikon digital camera and a macro lens. One of these days I have to get pics for the gallery. The more the merrier, right?

Jimbo · 03-28-2006, 03:44 AM

Hi Pete,

With Cali's law change in 2002, I haven't bought a handgun in a few years, so I've only lurked here occassionally. I pick up a holster now and then.

I've been studying up on G43 rifles. What good did it do? At Reno last month, I picked up a nice $1,800 mismatched AC44 with a sanded stock for the low price of $3,000.

Oh well. You have to learn somehow. Having the gun will at least give me something to refer to for the next purchase and I won't make that mistake again.

I don't know who made it to Reno last show, but we ended up going spur of the moment. I wanted to cancel due to the snow and all but we went anyway in the end.

I still think about getting my C&R license to get back into Luger collecting. But I'm pretty happy with my humble collection and am looking to get a couple of G/K 43's before they too go out of sight financially. Some of the sniper scopes on original mounts are going for over $3,000 alone WITHOUT THE RIFLE.

I think prices are insane right now and I'm starting to wonder if I should not save my money and wait for a correction. Then again, a correction may never come and I may just have to spend that much more for a Luger or K43 in the future. Who's to say?

Douglas711 · 03-28-2006, 05:39 PM

Jimbo,

Don't forget your Certificate Of Eligibility. A C&R in CA does no good for a pistol unless you have your COE. I am sure you already knew just thouhgt I would throw that in.

Regards,

Doug

wworker · 03-28-2006, 10:14 PM

Quote:

it seems that luger are cheaper here in europe. But mine was a bargain, it should maybe cost like $450 for a luger like mine.

I wish we could find Lugers this inexpensive in the US.

Jimbo · 03-29-2006, 01:20 AM

Douglas,

I forgot that, too. Still on the fence, but it is attractive. Whether I'm being shipped a Luger or a K43, it cuts out the middle-man and I can get it direct. We'll see...

Pete Ebbink · 03-29-2006, 12:49 PM

Hi Jim,

With your C&R and COE in CA State, you also do not have to wait 10-days to take ownership of a C&R and you can buy more than 1 gun per month.

I also got tired of the $ 75- $ 125 "tansfer fee" my local gun shops were charging me.

thegundude · 03-29-2006, 01:21 PM

Holy smokes Pete!!!

My local dealer (all but NFA stuff) charges me $15. I can do ten of them on one form and it's just fifteen bucks for all of them. I picked up two AK-47 receivers yesterday... Pulled out a five and a ten and went on my merry way.

Even class III guns are only $25. There's a 6.5" bbl shotty waiting for me as soon as I get fingerprinted and photographed.

There are some advantages to living in NC, that's for sure...

Of course, all my C&R stuff doesnt' cost anything extra, with the 03FFL...

Bob in OH · 03-29-2006, 09:14 PM

Jimbo... what's up on the G.43? Did you pay large only to get a mismatched and sanded ac? You have seen the G/K forum, right? Lot's of expertise over there. FYI, I collect long stuff primarily but have a few pistoles too...

zinfull · 03-29-2006, 10:33 PM

Sorry guys but pistols have to go through a FFL01 person. Rifles can go to your door but not lugers. Jimbo there is a guy in Guerneville that only charges $10 +DROS per transfer. It not a bad drive from SF.
Jerry

Jimbo · 03-29-2006, 10:55 PM

Hi Bob in OH,

I've been out of the collecting market for a while. Kind of getting "poised" for the future. So when I found a couple of G43s at the last Reno Gun Show, I hadn't bothered to prepare and got caught off-guard as to what to look for. I made a couple of mistakes.

The gun was being offered by an acquaintance of my father's. He said, "take it to anybody and let me know what they say about price". Being unprepared, I took it to someone who I thought should have known these guns who proceded to say the gun looked good but was "a little high" at $3,000. Since getting the gun, I have found it is pretty much a parts gun with no 2 Serial #s matching (well, the 2 bolt locking lugs match with each other!), and the stock sanded with an "R" for post-war use on it. Even the site hood is not right. At least the butt plate is authentic.

The bottom line is, I got buck fever and saw the gun I wanted it to be, not the gun it was, and then went looking for a way to talk myself into the purchase. A classic set of mistakes. Be sure that it won't happen again. A little $$$ is often a great way to learn, because you don't forget those lessons.

My goal was to get a righteous gun as a reference source for study and learning. I don't mind paying a hefty premium for that, since I can then hold something and really study it for future reference. The problem with this gun is, there is so much I can't use for reference, and the nature of the gun casts aspersions on absolutely every piece. So now I can't assume any of it is righteous unless I can prove to myself that it truly is - such as the butt plate which has the red primer and a spring with 5-windings on each side for the hinged door. I know this is a real butt-plate, but the sight hood is a 98k, so now I don't know what a true G43 site hood looks like. The stock is sanded so I have no reference what an unsanded stock should look and feel like.

On and on!

FWIW, I knew the bolt and carrier did not match the receiver, but I thought I was getting a gun as if straight from the battlefield, as the bolt groups often don't match the rest of the gun. But the number on the stock under the butt plate does not match the receiver, and really nothing in the bolt group matches each other. I was lead to believe this gun came from a collector who had it a long time, and I read into that what I wanted to - that it was a fairly righteous gun with a matching bolt-group that did not match the rest of the rifle. Now I can see that this gun was just a parts gun someone put together to make it look righteous.

I surely can't fault the buyer who allowed me to ask anyone I wanted to ask. I looked for Mike Krause but I couldn't locate him. I should have waited for him to come back. Instead I asked someone else who turned out to be unreliable.

My fault 100%. And a $1,000 lesson that will prove useful in the future.

I am sure there are others here who wish their most expensive lesson was only $1,000. I'll learn... ;-)

Isn't this all part of the Fun? LOL

Jimbo · 03-29-2006, 10:58 PM

zinfull,

Thanks for the Russian River Tip. That is a nice resource because I can always combine the business of buying a gun with the pleasure of a visit to that area. I have family in Sacramento and tend to use River City Gun Exchange. They charge $50 per sale but they are really good guys and I trust them. Every time my brother visits, they have a decent deal for him, so I feel like we need to support the good guys. I'll probaby stick with them unless or until I get my C&R, but the next time I'm in Guernville, I may look up the shop as a just in case.

Thanks again.

Bob in OH · 03-29-2006, 11:10 PM

Jimbo- Thanks for the update...and for being up front If you want into the world of G43, I'd recommend Darrin Weaver's book "Hitler's Garand. I nearly listed a real matched ac44 today and wanted 2.5K, but couldn't bring myself to do it. Expensive toys that only get even more pricey... I also know the guys in CA pay more for pieces than out East...

If you want to "talk" drop me an email... rmarqu at aol.com

website too http://bobinohio.com

Happy hunting...Bob

Jimbo · 03-29-2006, 11:46 PM

I have "Hitler's Garands" but simply got caught off-guard at the show. I hadn't been looking for a G43 and so I didn't bother to study up and just was too anxious to see the gun I wanted to see rather than what was actually in front of me. "Buck Fever" is a weird phenomenon.

Yes, I wish I had the $3,000 back. I don't care if I spend $1,000 over on my 1st gun as long as it went to something I KNEW was not messed with and would act as a resource for future purchases, and that didn't happen.

I'll try again later when I'm better prepared.

Steinar · 04-04-2006, 03:39 PM

andersG; Congratulations with your byf. Looks like Lugers are quite cheaper here in europe..
I bought an all matching byf 41 two years ago for 1800nkr (200USD)

Do you know of any good Luger dealers in sweeden?

03-25-2006, 06:19 AM	#1
Jimbo User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SF CA Posts: 167 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Not all the cheap deals are gone Cheapest Luger I've bought was $750 about 4 years ago, a byf 41 almost all matching except for the wrong sideplate (correct numbers stamped outside but the inside numbers didn't match my gun). Here's a decent little mismatched shooter for under $600. I thought these deals were dead and gone unless you found a little old lady trying to get the nasty gun out of the house. The only things I've seen under $600 were the "basket case" variety. http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976699314.htm I realize this isn't one of those glamorous posts about the latest one-of-a-kind Krieghoff, but bottom feeders need love too!

03-27-2006, 12:03 PM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	If the numbers inside your sideplate are 34, this gun is not mismatched. It was common to stamp one number higher than the first two digits of the serial number on the inside of the sideplate for this model Luger... I don't know why, just that they did... Congrats on an all matching Luger. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-29-2006, 01:21 PM	#13
thegundude User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Western NC Posts: 1,137 Thanks: 3 Thanked 16 Times in 3 Posts	Holy smokes Pete!!! My local dealer (all but NFA stuff) charges me $15. I can do ten of them on one form and it's just fifteen bucks for all of them. I picked up two AK-47 receivers yesterday... Pulled out a five and a ten and went on my merry way. Even class III guns are only $25. There's a 6.5" bbl shotty waiting for me as soon as I get fingerprinted and photographed. There are some advantages to living in NC, that's for sure... Of course, all my C&R stuff doesnt' cost anything extra, with the 03FFL... __________________ Keep your knees in the breeze and your iron in the air. ~Steve

04-04-2006, 03:39 PM	#20
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	andersG; Congratulations with your byf. Looks like Lugers are quite cheaper here in europe.. I bought an all matching byf 41 two years ago for 1800nkr (200USD) Do you know of any good Luger dealers in sweeden? __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

03-26-2006, 04:19 AM	#2
andersG New User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: sweden Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	i just bought my luger here in sweden for $375. Its an manufactured in 1942, the only mismatched thing is the magazine... it seems that luger are cheaper here in europe. But mine was a bargain, it should maybe cost like $450 for a luger like mine. i should attachment a pic of mine, but i havent found out how to do it. Anders

03-26-2006, 08:41 AM	#3
var99 User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: FL Posts: 114 Thanks: 4 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	HI Jimbo, May have some good news for you re your byf, the number on the inside of the sideplate, almost never matches the last 2 numbers of the serial. It is sometimes the first two numbers, sometimes a number higher, often totally different, check out the recent discussion on this topic on Jan Still's site. regards, Vince

03-27-2006, 12:58 AM	#4
Jimbo User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SF CA Posts: 167 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	var99, Thanks for the reminder, I knew that at one time and totally forgot. The nside is "34" and the serial is 3377. I was marveling at the coincidence that the 77's stamped on the sideplate were identical to the 77's on the receiver. Thanks again for the reminder! I thought I got a good deal on that little gun. Even the small blood-stain is a good reminder of the price people paid so I could eventually own this weary specimen. No such thing as a bad luger. Even the ones chromed by WWII vets are the product of the history of that war and are as valid a piece of history as a mint original. Of course, I prefer the mint originals, but I respect the vets even when they chromed or bubba'd their gun

03-27-2006, 12:13 PM	#6
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Jim, Haven't seen you posting for a while. Glad to see you're around. The seller, Bob Adams, has a good, solid reputation.

03-28-2006, 03:38 AM	#7
Jimbo User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SF CA Posts: 167 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks John. You guys taught me that before but my Luger collecting Hiatus has gone on so long, I had forgotten it. Haven't bought bought one in a few years but my little collection is still a source of pride and joy. I have a new Nikon digital camera and a macro lens. One of these days I have to get pics for the gallery. The more the merrier, right?

03-28-2006, 03:44 AM	#8
Jimbo User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SF CA Posts: 167 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Pete, With Cali's law change in 2002, I haven't bought a handgun in a few years, so I've only lurked here occassionally. I pick up a holster now and then. I've been studying up on G43 rifles. What good did it do? At Reno last month, I picked up a nice $1,800 mismatched AC44 with a sanded stock for the low price of $3,000. Oh well. You have to learn somehow. Having the gun will at least give me something to refer to for the next purchase and I won't make that mistake again. I don't know who made it to Reno last show, but we ended up going spur of the moment. I wanted to cancel due to the snow and all but we went anyway in the end. I still think about getting my C&R license to get back into Luger collecting. But I'm pretty happy with my humble collection and am looking to get a couple of G/K 43's before they too go out of sight financially. Some of the sniper scopes on original mounts are going for over $3,000 alone WITHOUT THE RIFLE. I think prices are insane right now and I'm starting to wonder if I should not save my money and wait for a correction. Then again, a correction may never come and I may just have to spend that much more for a Luger or K43 in the future. Who's to say?

03-28-2006, 05:39 PM	#9
Douglas711 User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: CA Posts: 64 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Jimbo, Don't forget your Certificate Of Eligibility. A C&R in CA does no good for a pistol unless you have your COE. I am sure you already knew just thouhgt I would throw that in. Regards, Doug

03-29-2006, 01:20 AM	#11
Jimbo User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SF CA Posts: 167 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Douglas, I forgot that, too. Still on the fence, but it is attractive. Whether I'm being shipped a Luger or a K43, it cuts out the middle-man and I can get it direct. We'll see...

03-29-2006, 12:49 PM	#12
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Jim, With your C&R and COE in CA State, you also do not have to wait 10-days to take ownership of a C&R and you can buy more than 1 gun per month. I also got tired of the $ 75- $ 125 "tansfer fee" my local gun shops were charging me.

03-29-2006, 09:14 PM	#14
Bob in OH User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NE OH Posts: 129 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Jimbo... what's up on the G.43? Did you pay large only to get a mismatched and sanded ac? You have seen the G/K forum, right? Lot's of expertise over there. FYI, I collect long stuff primarily but have a few pistoles too...

03-29-2006, 10:33 PM	#15
zinfull Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sonoma County CA Posts: 240 Thanks: 4 Thanked 32 Times in 15 Posts	Sorry guys but pistols have to go through a FFL01 person. Rifles can go to your door but not lugers. Jimbo there is a guy in Guerneville that only charges $10 +DROS per transfer. It not a bad drive from SF. Jerry

03-29-2006, 10:55 PM	#16
Jimbo User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SF CA Posts: 167 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Bob in OH, I've been out of the collecting market for a while. Kind of getting "poised" for the future. So when I found a couple of G43s at the last Reno Gun Show, I hadn't bothered to prepare and got caught off-guard as to what to look for. I made a couple of mistakes. The gun was being offered by an acquaintance of my father's. He said, "take it to anybody and let me know what they say about price". Being unprepared, I took it to someone who I thought should have known these guns who proceded to say the gun looked good but was "a little high" at $3,000. Since getting the gun, I have found it is pretty much a parts gun with no 2 Serial #s matching (well, the 2 bolt locking lugs match with each other!), and the stock sanded with an "R" for post-war use on it. Even the site hood is not right. At least the butt plate is authentic. The bottom line is, I got buck fever and saw the gun I wanted it to be, not the gun it was, and then went looking for a way to talk myself into the purchase. A classic set of mistakes. Be sure that it won't happen again. A little $$$ is often a great way to learn, because you don't forget those lessons. My goal was to get a righteous gun as a reference source for study and learning. I don't mind paying a hefty premium for that, since I can then hold something and really study it for future reference. The problem with this gun is, there is so much I can't use for reference, and the nature of the gun casts aspersions on absolutely every piece. So now I can't assume any of it is righteous unless I can prove to myself that it truly is - such as the butt plate which has the red primer and a spring with 5-windings on each side for the hinged door. I know this is a real butt-plate, but the sight hood is a 98k, so now I don't know what a true G43 site hood looks like. The stock is sanded so I have no reference what an unsanded stock should look and feel like. On and on! FWIW, I knew the bolt and carrier did not match the receiver, but I thought I was getting a gun as if straight from the battlefield, as the bolt groups often don't match the rest of the gun. But the number on the stock under the butt plate does not match the receiver, and really nothing in the bolt group matches each other. I was lead to believe this gun came from a collector who had it a long time, and I read into that what I wanted to - that it was a fairly righteous gun with a matching bolt-group that did not match the rest of the rifle. Now I can see that this gun was just a parts gun someone put together to make it look righteous. I surely can't fault the buyer who allowed me to ask anyone I wanted to ask. I looked for Mike Krause but I couldn't locate him. I should have waited for him to come back. Instead I asked someone else who turned out to be unreliable. My fault 100%. And a $1,000 lesson that will prove useful in the future. I am sure there are others here who wish their most expensive lesson was only $1,000. I'll learn... ;-) Isn't this all part of the Fun? LOL

03-29-2006, 10:58 PM	#17
Jimbo User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SF CA Posts: 167 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	zinfull, Thanks for the Russian River Tip. That is a nice resource because I can always combine the business of buying a gun with the pleasure of a visit to that area. I have family in Sacramento and tend to use River City Gun Exchange. They charge $50 per sale but they are really good guys and I trust them. Every time my brother visits, they have a decent deal for him, so I feel like we need to support the good guys. I'll probaby stick with them unless or until I get my C&R, but the next time I'm in Guernville, I may look up the shop as a just in case. Thanks again.

03-29-2006, 11:10 PM	#18
Bob in OH User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NE OH Posts: 129 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Jimbo- Thanks for the update...and for being up front If you want into the world of G43, I'd recommend Darrin Weaver's book "Hitler's Garand. I nearly listed a real matched ac44 today and wanted 2.5K, but couldn't bring myself to do it. Expensive toys that only get even more pricey... I also know the guys in CA pay more for pieces than out East... If you want to "talk" drop me an email... rmarqu at aol.com website too http://bobinohio.com Happy hunting...Bob

03-29-2006, 11:46 PM	#19
Jimbo User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SF CA Posts: 167 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I have "Hitler's Garands" but simply got caught off-guard at the show. I hadn't been looking for a G43 and so I didn't bother to study up and just was too anxious to see the gun I wanted to see rather than what was actually in front of me. "Buck Fever" is a weird phenomenon. Yes, I wish I had the $3,000 back. I don't care if I spend $1,000 over on my 1st gun as long as it went to something I KNEW was not messed with and would act as a resource for future purchases, and that didn't happen. I'll try again later when I'm better prepared.