Relative Rarity-Grip Strap Markings

Navy · 01-09-2003, 09:04 AM

All,

Received a query from Albert Beliard regarding the rarity of T.D. marked guns and it set me to wondering about relative rarity by marking.

I would opine that the Kiau marked guns are the rarest, followed by guns that are U-boat marked (to a boat, zepplin marked, followed by Uboat abteilung marked pieces and then the Torpedo Divisions other fleet divisions, with the most common markings being the Kiel and Wilhemshafen werfts.

Any body ever done any research or have an opinion?

Tom A

Ron Wood · 01-09-2003, 10:35 PM

Tom,
I have seen a couple of WK marked navy Lugers advertised lately with 1st Sea Battalion markings on the front grip strap. Is this encountered very often?

Navy · 01-10-2003, 07:22 AM

Hi Ron,

I have *never* seen or heard of Imperial Navy guns marked in that fashion. I would be very curious and very leery...

Tom A.

John Sabato · 01-10-2003, 09:42 AM

Ron I would ask you to reference a photo with the markings you describe if you can, but the "upload" photo feature for the forum has not yet been restored... John D. is working on it.

Can you reference an external photo showing what you are talking about?

thanks,

Ron Wood · 01-10-2003, 10:03 AM

I do not have any photos of the markings, but there are two 1906 First Issue Altered Lugers up for sale right now. Bob Adams has one marked WW1513 on the back strap and 1SB 204 on the front strap. FGS Inc. (Doug Smith) has one marked WK22 on the back strap and 1SB 186 on the front strap.

Navy · 01-10-2003, 09:52 PM

All,

Went o Bob Adams site; didn't have url for FGS...in any event, one question is nagging at me...given the German Military sense of order, how would one reconcile a piece with TWO property marks? I think that the answer is apparent...will elaborate later after I get home and have an opportunity to confirm some suspicions with my resource material.

Tom A.

Brandon · 01-10-2003, 10:43 PM

Tom,
URL for FGS Inc. is: http://www.fgsinc.8m.com/

Best Regards, Brandon

Jim · 01-16-2003, 12:03 PM

Tom, I am waiting on your elaboration. I am interested in any information you have.

Ron Wood · 01-16-2003, 12:06 PM

Me too.

karmast · 02-28-2003, 10:36 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Tom A:
All,

Went o Bob Adams site; didn't have url for FGS...in any event, one question is nagging at me...given the German Military sense of order, how would one reconcile a piece with TWO property marks? I think that the answer is apparent...will elaborate later after I get home and have an opportunity to confirm some suspicions with my resource material.

Tom A.<hr /></blockquote>It could be, that the gun was handed over to the other unit, but on every piece I have seen (not only lugers) the old unit marking was crossed out with several "X" ..
The place of the second unit marking is not done like the it shoulf be.. and this should be a warning..

On the other hand side: perhaps it is authentic, who can tell what the old folks did?

But in general, the new unit marking was placed on the same place like the crossed out old one.
I have seen Reichsrevolvers with very less space to mark, but they made it..
The new unit marking in this example sounds like the reglement for the army pistols, i think they had it in front of the grip.

(sorry for my bad english, I am trying to learn)

01-09-2003, 09:04 AM	#1
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Relative Rarity-Grip Strap Markings All, Received a query from Albert Beliard regarding the rarity of T.D. marked guns and it set me to wondering about relative rarity by marking. I would opine that the Kiau marked guns are the rarest, followed by guns that are U-boat marked (to a boat, zepplin marked, followed by Uboat abteilung marked pieces and then the Torpedo Divisions other fleet divisions, with the most common markings being the Kiel and Wilhemshafen werfts. Any body ever done any research or have an opinion? Tom A

01-09-2003, 10:35 PM	#2
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,098 Times in 1,676 Posts	Tom, I have seen a couple of WK marked navy Lugers advertised lately with 1st Sea Battalion markings on the front grip strap. Is this encountered very often? __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-10-2003, 09:42 AM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Ron I would ask you to reference a photo with the markings you describe if you can, but the "upload" photo feature for the forum has not yet been restored... John D. is working on it. Can you reference an external photo showing what you are talking about? thanks, __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

01-10-2003, 10:03 AM	#5
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,098 Times in 1,676 Posts	I do not have any photos of the markings, but there are two 1906 First Issue Altered Lugers up for sale right now. Bob Adams has one marked WW1513 on the back strap and 1SB 204 on the front strap. FGS Inc. (Doug Smith) has one marked WK22 on the back strap and 1SB 186 on the front strap. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-16-2003, 12:06 PM	#9
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,098 Times in 1,676 Posts	Me too. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-10-2003, 07:22 AM	#3
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Hi Ron, I have never seen or heard of Imperial Navy guns marked in that fashion. I would be very curious and very leery... Tom A.

01-10-2003, 09:52 PM	#6
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	All, Went o Bob Adams site; didn't have url for FGS...in any event, one question is nagging at me...given the German Military sense of order, how would one reconcile a piece with TWO property marks? I think that the answer is apparent...will elaborate later after I get home and have an opportunity to confirm some suspicions with my resource material. Tom A.

01-10-2003, 10:43 PM	#7
Brandon User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 329 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Tom, URL for FGS Inc. is: http://www.fgsinc.8m.com/ Best Regards, Brandon

01-16-2003, 12:03 PM	#8
Jim User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Oklahoma City Posts: 39 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Tom, I am waiting on your elaboration. I am interested in any information you have.

02-28-2003, 10:36 AM	#10
karmast User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 57 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Tom A: <strong>All, Went o Bob Adams site; didn't have url for FGS...in any event, one question is nagging at me...given the German Military sense of order, how would one reconcile a piece with TWO property marks? I think that the answer is apparent...will elaborate later after I get home and have an opportunity to confirm some suspicions with my resource material. Tom A.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">It could be, that the gun was handed over to the other unit, but on every piece I have seen (not only lugers) the old unit marking was crossed out with several "X" .. The place of the second unit marking is not done like the it shoulf be.. and this should be a warning.. On the other hand side: perhaps it is authentic, who can tell what the old folks did? But in general, the new unit marking was placed on the same place like the crossed out old one. I have seen Reichsrevolvers with very less space to mark, but they made it.. The new unit marking in this example sounds like the reglement for the army pistols, i think they had it in front of the grip. (sorry for my bad english, I am trying to learn) __________________ Every Luger tells a story - but you have to find out what it says..