Thor Rework Mark

[Thor]

How many of you think my rework mark is a good idea? How many of you would prefer if you sent me a Luger to restore to have me omit the restoration mark? The marking is three small red dots hidden in the inside of the magazine well and cannot be seen unless the magazine is removed? I sold 9 Lugers last year that were ALL marked with my mark and they sold for $945-$2000 each. All were advertised as reworked Lugers. Seems like from this the mark not only provides some additional history to the gun but also has some value.

[Navy]

Ted,
My zwei pfennigs...To paraphrase the great billiards artist, Minnesota Fats, when asked about why he didn't have a particular trophy, "If I'd a'wanted a rework mark I'd bought me one."
I think you do your customers a disservice with this, particularly since it is not done at customer request and I believe it detracts from the quality of your work.
Tom A.

[Greg]

Ted,

You've restored 5 Lugers for me, and all of them are testaments to your skills. If I had my preference, I would request that the rework mark be deleted because it can detract from the craftsmanship AND I'm know that I'm not out to cheat anyone in the future with one of your masterpieces. That being said though, a rework mark assures everyone (at least at the initial point of sale) that the piece is indeed reworked and folks can react accordingly.

Greg

[Herb]

For those that are relatively new to Luger collecting I highly recommend that you purchase Volume 24, number 4, of the 2002 issue of Man at Arms magazine which contains an excellant guide to spotting Luger restorations by Dave Norin a member of the American Custom Gunmakers Guild. His article goes into great detail on how to spot restorations and is invaluable to the beginning, and veteran, collector. Even Ted leaves a telltale signature that can be spotted. Get it!
http://www.manatarmsbooks.com/oldissue.html
Scroll down to the issue near the bottom.

[policeluger]

Have you started another thread too avoid the question??....do you mark your touch up work??, John S. states you mark everything, but do you....not a trick question, do you mark touch up work???????

[Greg]

Is the strawing of small parts considered "boosting" by members of this Forum?

Greg

[policeluger]

Yes.

[Thor]

Thanks! ", or send me the small parts and for $85 I'll polish/re-straw and send parts back"
http://forums.lugerforum.com/lugerfo...c;f=7;t=000153

This whole issue has me rethinking my rework marks.

[Edward Tinker]

Greg, I think it is a form of boosting, but in my limited experience, grips (being cleaned, repaired for small chips) and it appears strawing seems almost acceptable by many (some) collectors...

Ed

[ToggleTop]

AND I'm know that I'm not out to cheat anyone in the future with one of your masterpieces. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">As we all know there will never be a satisfactory solution to this question. Once any reworking or boosting is performed there will always be a chance some sucker in the future will be taken. Any markings placed on the firearm to indicate work done for this purpose should readily be visible and stand out like a sore thumb. If not you can bet the buyer will not be told about it. I know we are all honest but let's get real. Money creates a sparkle in the eye. As the years pass as we will you can count on some of the reworked firearms being passed off as originals. There is no way to prevent it in my opinion.
Thor, in regards to your question I do not think it makes one bit of difference whether you mark your work or not. You are not the only one reworking lugers.

[Thor]

Based on the above replies and the feed back I am getting directly from my clients, I am going to offer to omit the marking at the customers request. I have heard that some of them get removed anyway after I send them out. I will keep the records for all to check with me if they wish.

[ViggoG]

Thor,
Hang In There Ole Buddy, You Know that you are doing the right thing by applying YOUR MARK to YOUR WORK. And Thats all that Counts! <img border="0" alt="[nono]" title="" src="graemlins/nono.gif" />
The Customer sees your Statement and If he then still wishes to have you work on his Pistol, What follows is truth no deception. <img border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" title="" src="graemlins/drink.gif" />
And In My Opinion With the Skill that you have developed it Appears to Add Value to an old Relic. <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" />
If I can Ever afford the work I wish to have you Do both my 1906 Eagle and My Repro Ideal Combo.
That Will Be "One of a Kind Set". And in matching Colors WHEEEEEEE !!!!!! <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
ViggoG

[Luke]

Thor -

You are an honest man. Do what you think is right, and don't worry too much about what others think. I trust your judgement, and I think everyone else here feels the same.

Your Friend, Luke.

[Roadkill]

This is one of those oddities in the Luger community but common to human nature. Thor, you restore Lugers. This is an unholy ritual to a luger collector. Much like the rabbi who publicly denounces pork as unclean but truly savors a plate of ham at home, they will publicly shun but then acquire and send you noncollectable guns and have them restored to the level of a collectable and announce it as restored knowing that in the future it will be presented as otherwise. The most used phrase used in describing your work is "can't tell it from an original". Quit fooling yourself gentlemen. In 30 years 75% of the Thor's restorations will be presented as originals. They are that good. The question isn't if the marks should or should not be added, but what is the motive in having the work done. There is no intent to defraud anyone, an attempt by marking is made to prevent it, but human nature being what it is will not stop it.

rk

[MauserLugers]

Thor,
I think you should continue to put your mark on your work. You are the only person that does this that I am aware or and it makes your work unique in my mind and gives some the satisfaction that you are not mass reproducing these just for the bucks, but actually take pride in doing excellent workmanship. Let face it, you have a small business and turn out only a few refinished Lugers a year compared to some in this business. I feel it adds to your credibility as well as your work to have this mark. If someone wants to remove it, then that is THEIR business and their motive doesn't seem so pure or honest as it once sounded.

I agree with Roadkill, Luke, and Viggo on this subject. Refinished Lugers are going to be passed off as real and are everyday. No matter how many books you buy, or articles you read, you can still get fooled as some of the restoration are that good. Look at the 1916 Navy Lugers and the discussion on the recent toggles offered for sale. Stick to you guns Thor, in this case your mark and stay as pure as your can. Your mark isn't really going to change the world of collecting, but at least you have the peace of mind as do some of your fellow admires that your intentions are of the highest degree. In this business about all you have in your reputation and once rumors or doubts come into play, you're looked at in an entirely different manner. Stay true to yourself and continue to do what you feel is correct. --- Bill

[Pete Ebbink]

Hello Ted,

I have always thought you should come up with a more artist mark or even a nice "thor" stamping...similar to the VONO or the R. Fluckiger stampings (on some Swiss reworks) and stamp it proudly on the right side of the frame.

In a few years down the road, I think the pistols that have gone through your hands will be as desired, by some, as those reworks by Gale Morgan, John Martz, VONO, Fluckiger, etc...

And after your passing (God forbid...), your pistols will be legendary and you will be slightly immortal...and remembered..!

Hope the purists do not tar & feather me... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Hello Bill M.,

Just recently I saw several Gale Morgan restorations on a table at Reno along side some factory-original finished works. I could not tell the difference other than the Morgan works had absolutely no wear. In a few years when these Morgan reworks gain some wear patterns, over time, I can imagine they could be resold as originals...(I assume G. Morgan does not do any stamp, but I could be wrong on this point).

I have always appreciated Ted's markings and would hope he continues to do so...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

[Pete Ebbink]

Hello Howard,

I think there is an easy way to get your answer from Thor.

Send him one of your lugers with some trouble areas, pay him the $ 400-500 to do his touch-up magic, and you will then probably have the answer to your question in your hands...when you get your gun back home... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

[front sight]

Thor,
I am not a collector, seasoned or otherwise, so some of the comments about what "original" is are a bit over my head and seem a bit like picking nits. However, some collectors go to those extremes and it seems like they should be thankful for your rework marks. For others who are more like me and enjoy your fine craftsmanship and the unique design of the Luger, a rework mark in an inconspicuous place is a non issue. It seems to me that an honest person would welcome keeping dishonest people honest. After all, what I do with your reworked gun isn't really the issue as I see it. It is what the guy I sell it to (not likely to happen any time soon ) does with it. If he is prohibited from passing it off as an "original" so much the better.

This discussion reminds me of when I got my Garand reworked. I had bought it from CMP and it was not pretty. I sent it to an armorer who among other things, re barreled it and put a new stock on it. He engraved the name of his shop in beautiful script on the barrel where it could be seen. I have no idea if he does this to alert others that it is a rework or not, but I was not disappointed in the least. After all, I had no intention of passing it off as a pristine example of a 1944 Garand even if had not put his mark on it (of course he didn't try to fake serial numbers or date stamps on the barrel so a knowledgeable collector would have seen it was a rework quickly - but possibly an inexperienced collector might not). In fact I was a little proud to have his mark on it because some who know his work would realize I had a quality gun.

I see you have decided to leave it up to the customer whether he wants the rework marks or not. That is your call. But for me. It bothers me not a wit that you will put them on my gun and it makes me feel a lot better knowing I am dealing with a honest smith who obviously has not desire to fool anyone.

I can't imagine anyone feeling differently, but that's just me.

[Hairy]

Thor, in my opinion, your mark tells the world that a master did the work, not some bubba. Frankly, I think it will add value to the gun in the future.

Your solution: let the customer decide if the gun should be marked or not but you keep records on the work seems to be tne answer to everyone's needs.

[Thor]

Hairy, I have thought about this a lot lately. Offering to add the mark, and giving the customer the option is the best way to make him/her happy. After all, it is their gun and some of them simply dont want it. Others will feel that the marking might even add value in the future.