06/29 M+ Stamp

Henry Markell · 09-16-2005, 02:37 PM

Hello Luger Collectors

my red grip swiss Luger has on serial number also an M+ mark stamp.
Who knows what a kind of stamp this is ?
Best
HM

Henry Markell · 09-16-2005, 02:39 PM

Sorry, hope here is
the picture

Ron Wood · 09-16-2005, 03:57 PM

It is the inspection stamp of Col. Muhlemann, the Swiss official that performed a quality check and acceptance of Swiss military firearms.

Pete Ebbink · 09-17-2005, 04:51 PM

Henry,

The "P" that is on the left side of your receiver (with the letter P laying on its back) is the privatization release stamp. This is done when a soldier left the service and wanted to keep his sidearm. Sometimes it is just stamped with a "P"...other times it is stamped with a P xx...with two numbers for the year/date it was release. For example..." P 41 " would indicate the luger was released from Ordnance control/use in 1941.

Dwight Gruber · 09-17-2005, 11:53 PM

Pete,

Were they allowed to just take their sidearm, or did they have to pay for them?

--Dwight

Pete Ebbink · 09-19-2005, 02:36 PM

Hi Dwight,

I do not have an answer for you. I will email some folks in CH and inquire.

the gunman · 09-19-2005, 03:42 PM

Interesting question . I to am looking foward to the answer.

Guisan · 09-20-2005, 04:11 AM

No they did not have to pay for their gun.
Times have changed now the current Swiss soldiers need to pay for the modification (auto to semi-auto) of their Stgw90's when they want to keep that one.

Thanks,
Guisan.

Henry Markell · 09-20-2005, 02:59 PM

Hello und good evening,

know some body of You why Col. Muhlemann uses 2 different marks ( old round in 30th in cube ?
Best Regards
HM

Guisan · 09-20-2005, 03:33 PM

Nada and I was born way after he died but I learned that patience is a good thing to get answers on questions like this.

Thanks,
Guisan.

Pete Ebbink · 09-20-2005, 06:28 PM

Henry,

I would just guess that stamps/dies wore out and new ones were made and maybe the style of each stamp was changed...I have seen Col Muhlemann's stamping with just the +/M and no cartouche surrounding it...but have also seen a round/oval cartouche and a rectangular cartouche surronding the +/M.

ROLLAND · 10-11-2005, 08:16 AM

I have a 06/29 parabellum made in 1941 (SN 61903) which has a "M" different of Henry Markell 's one:I send you a picture

LU1900 · 10-11-2005, 09:01 AM

...........

Dwight Gruber · 10-11-2005, 11:32 AM

Might be interesting to do a serial# study to determine the evolution of the mark...

--Dwight

Pete Ebbink · 10-11-2005, 02:10 PM

I have seen 3 types of +/M stampings along the side of M1929 Ordnance lugers (note the commerical ones did not receive an Ordnance inspector stamping.). Both shown in the photos in the posting are of the types I have seen and have on some of my M1929's. I would imagine inspector stamps wore out and had to be replaced and new ones may have been ordered with a different style to reduce boredom of using the "same ole stamp"...

Sometime around # 66xxx, the Muhlemann stamping went away and was replaced with a "W+F" stamping. See the attached photo I took off the Simpson LTD site.

...

My guess is that Muhlemann retired (he started at Bern in 1913 and the M1929 ran to the end of November 1947) and this W+F stamping was then used to the end of the M1929 Ordnance run of lugers. This is just a guess on my part...no research done.

Here is a scan of a Swiss stamping chart author V. Bobba has in his book about Swiss lugers :

09-16-2005, 02:37 PM	#1
Henry Markell User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	06/29 M+ Stamp Hello Luger Collectors my red grip swiss Luger has on serial number also an M+ mark stamp. Who knows what a kind of stamp this is ? Best HM __________________ HM

09-16-2005, 02:39 PM	#2
Henry Markell User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Photo Sorry, hope here is the picture Attached Thumbnails __________________ HM

09-16-2005, 03:57 PM	#3
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	It is the inspection stamp of Col. Muhlemann, the Swiss official that performed a quality check and acceptance of Swiss military firearms. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-20-2005, 04:11 AM	#8
Guisan User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 112 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	No they did not have to pay for their gun. Times have changed now the current Swiss soldiers need to pay for the modification (auto to semi-auto) of their Stgw90's when they want to keep that one. Thanks, Guisan. __________________ Fight to your last cartridge, then fight with your bayonets. No surrender. Fight to the death. --Gen. Henri Guisan, Switzerland, July '40

09-20-2005, 02:59 PM	#9
Henry Markell User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Col. Muhlemann Hello und good evening, know some body of You why Col. Muhlemann uses 2 different marks ( old round in 30th in cube ? Best Regards HM __________________ HM

09-17-2005, 04:51 PM	#4
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Henry, The "P" that is on the left side of your receiver (with the letter P laying on its back) is the privatization release stamp. This is done when a soldier left the service and wanted to keep his sidearm. Sometimes it is just stamped with a "P"...other times it is stamped with a P xx...with two numbers for the year/date it was release. For example..." P 41 " would indicate the luger was released from Ordnance control/use in 1941.

09-17-2005, 11:53 PM	#5
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,889 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,281 Times in 423 Posts	Pete, Were they allowed to just take their sidearm, or did they have to pay for them? --Dwight

09-19-2005, 02:36 PM	#6
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Dwight, I do not have an answer for you. I will email some folks in CH and inquire.

09-19-2005, 03:42 PM	#7
the gunman User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Leland NC 28451 Posts: 1,017 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	Interesting question . I to am looking foward to the answer.

09-20-2005, 03:33 PM	#10
Guisan User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 112 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Nada and I was born way after he died but I learned that patience is a good thing to get answers on questions like this. Thanks, Guisan. __________________ Fight to your last cartridge, then fight with your bayonets. No surrender. Fight to the death. --Gen. Henri Guisan, Switzerland, July '40

09-20-2005, 06:28 PM	#11
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Henry, I would just guess that stamps/dies wore out and new ones were made and maybe the style of each stamp was changed...I have seen Col Muhlemann's stamping with just the +/M and no cartouche surrounding it...but have also seen a round/oval cartouche and a rectangular cartouche surronding the +/M.

10-11-2005, 08:16 AM	#12
ROLLAND New User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: AJACCIO -CORSICA (France) Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I have a 06/29 parabellum made in 1941 (SN 61903) which has a "M" different of Henry Markell 's one:I send you a picture __________________ CORSICA

10-11-2005, 09:01 AM	#13
LU1900 User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: FRANCE Posts: 900 Thanks: 35 Thanked 461 Times in 193 Posts	........... __________________ Best regards from France...Patrice https://www.fichier-pdf.fr/2016/03/1...nd-snail-drum/

10-11-2005, 11:32 AM	#14
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,889 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,281 Times in 423 Posts	Might be interesting to do a serial# study to determine the evolution of the mark... --Dwight

10-11-2005, 02:10 PM	#15
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	I have seen 3 types of +/M stampings along the side of M1929 Ordnance lugers (note the commerical ones did not receive an Ordnance inspector stamping.). Both shown in the photos in the posting are of the types I have seen and have on some of my M1929's. I would imagine inspector stamps wore out and had to be replaced and new ones may have been ordered with a different style to reduce boredom of using the "same ole stamp"... Sometime around # 66xxx, the Muhlemann stamping went away and was replaced with a "W+F" stamping. See the attached photo I took off the Simpson LTD site. ... My guess is that Muhlemann retired (he started at Bern in 1913 and the M1929 ran to the end of November 1947) and this W+F stamping was then used to the end of the M1929 Ordnance run of lugers. This is just a guess on my part...no research done. Here is a scan of a Swiss stamping chart author V. Bobba has in his book about Swiss lugers :