Pepper Spray for teachers???

[cdmech]

Originally Posted by Olle

I'm sure that someone more educated than me can pick it apart, after all I'm an engineer and not a lawyer so I'm looking at it from a layman's practical view

One last thing I would like to add is that our founding documents are written in plain english so that anyone of simple mind can understand his freedoms. It takes a lawyer and the educated to confuse them.

Marc

[Olle]

Originally Posted by cdmech

One last thing I would like to add is that our founding documents are written in plain english so that anyone of simple mind can understand his freedoms. It takes a lawyer and the educated to confuse them.

Marc

That is true, the problem is that the lawyers and the (supposedly) educated are the ones who have the power to change things. The power is only indirectly with the people, once politicians are voted in they will go their own merry way regardless.

I hope you don't confuse my ideas with those of the lawmakers, what I'm saying is that there is a good chance that they, and not us will come up with new laws. I can see changes coming, and if we approach it with an open mind we can at least steer it in a better direction than assault weapons bans, gun registration and other things we absolutely don't want. If they know that you're not willing to negotiate, they won't invite you to the negotiation.

[cirelaw]

Lawyers are smart we represent all sides!! Eric, Esq.

[saab-bob]

A question I have is why didn't any neighbors respond to the sounds of gun shots coming from the school?
I live across the street from a elementary school. All three of my kids went there. Believe me,if I hear multiple gunshots coming from the school during a school day and see no police swarming the premises,I would be out the door in less then a minute(sound familiar?) with a rifle and a 45. I am sure all you gents would do the same.The "I don't want to get involved" mindset has to be put aside when it comes to gunfire and children.
So what about a program similar to neighborhood watch? The local police could ask for a few volunteers from the school area to just be ready if anything happens.Perhaps a few retired gents who are normally at home. The local public affairs officer could teach some classes and hold a meeting once a month.
The volunteers could use their own approved weapons and have to pass background checks. To make it worthwhile for the volunteers,the police can supply free ammo and let them use the police range for practice.Cost to taxpayer? Negligible.
The other thing that should be done is every teacher and admin person needs a panic button on their PERSON whenever they are at school. It should include a direct signal to the police dept and the school office and it should start up a very loud warning signal,that is not the same as the school bell systems. Perhaps some surplus air raid sirens could be used.
You need a different type of warning signal so that everybody knows when a serious event is occurring. This also ties into my school watch program.When you hear THAT signal,you respond!
Comments?
Bob

[lugerholsterrepair]

"I think,therefore I own guns" Bob..better think that scenario through a little more..running to a school armed like you propose automatically makes you a felon..then it makes you a target of opportunity when the Police do arrive.

[saab-bob]

Jerry
When the police do respond,they know who you are. You have had meetings with them and have ID that shows you are part of the watch program.
Bob

[Curly1]

Don't count on every law enforcement officer responding to the scene from different agencys to remember you or even know that you are a good guy. You could be wasting their time dealing with you while the BG is getting busy inside.

Plus what are the chances of you hearing shots from an enclosed school and you are inside your house. Probably pretty slim.

[saab-bob]

Gary
Didn't want to hi-jack this wonderful forum. Of course,not all responders will know you. Just throw down and assume the position quickly. As far as having a enclosed school and not hearing shots,that is why a loud panic alarm is a plus. In addition ,our local school district has a phone call alert system,which I am sure could be utilized by watch volunteers.
I understand, you can't have a one size fits all solution. But any comprehensive program that is utilized will be a deterrent to the crazies out there.Right now, because of the usual unintended consequences of anti-gun laws,the schools are now a free fire zone.
If the mentally unstable punk planning on attacking a school knows that local armed citizens are bearing down on him and he has to endure a loud obnoxious siren while he is looking for victims,maybe he will just commit suicide instead.
Bob

[Steve Lempitski]

Honorable intention Bob - BUT realistically you opening fire in a school and a round fired by you hits a kid.....

[lugerholsterrepair]

Bob..Your heart is in the right place and I am positive any of the fellows I associate with would do exactly as you say..I am just saying it's not necessarily a good plan. Something you might do on the spur of the moment in the heat of battle but these things rarely present themselves. When they do brave people do what they can with what they have to be sure. One other thing..

I live across the street from an elementary school. You Sir.. are in a "gun free zone" 5 years in the grey bar hotel. Kick out the fire and hide!

http://www.gunlaws.com/Gun_Free_School_Zones.htm

Assault is a kind of behavior, not a kind of hardware.


• It's always better to avoid a gunfight than to win one.

• It's always better to win one than to lose one.

• If innocent life doesn't immediately depend on it, don't shoot.

• And if it does, don't miss.

Before you drop the hammer, remember:
You will write a check for your life savings to your lawyer.
Don't do that unless your life depends on it.

[Curly1]

Good luck in ever getting that law changed now.

[cdmech]

Originally Posted by Olle

I hope you don't confuse my ideas with those of the lawmakers, what I'm saying is that there is a good chance that they, and not us will come up with new laws. I can see changes coming, and if we approach it with an open mind we can at least steer it in a better direction than assault weapons bans, gun registration and other things we absolutely don't want. If they know that you're not willing to negotiate, they won't invite you to the negotiation.

I hope you don't think I'm just picking apart your every post, because rereading this thread I'm afraid that's exactly what I've done.. Actually you've just forced me to refine my own thoughts.
As far as being "invited to the negotiations", therein is allot of what is wrong with the politicians. Our basic rights are not given to us by man, therefore man cannot rightly take them away. It is non-negotiable. That is why we are not subjects.

Marc

[saab-bob]

Thanks Gents
Just throwing out ideas about how to do something effective, instead of the same old ineffective "Ban all Guns" chorus!
Bob

[Edward Tinker]

What folks need to really do is write their congressman a real letter, and tell them in an articulate way that we really don't need any new laws (stressing first how this awful tragedy was caused by a mad man)

Ed

[Olle]

Originally Posted by cdmech

I hope you don't think I'm just picking apart your every post, because rereading this thread I'm afraid that's exactly what I've done.. Actually you've just forced me to refine my own thoughts.
As far as being "invited to the negotiations", therein is allot of what is wrong with the politicians. Our basic rights are not given to us by man, therefore man cannot rightly take them away. It is non-negotiable. That is why we are not subjects.

Marc

Marc,

No problem, I just wanted to be sure that you understand that I'm not an advocate for more restrictions. I fully understand and actually agree with most of your points, I'm just looking at it from a different perspective. I guess I have just resigned to the fact that attitudes, culture, politics are constantly changing. Sometimes they will evolve into something better, sometimes they won't, but you can be damn sure that they will evolve somehow. I don't always like it, but it's happening anyway and I can't do very much more than to try and turn it in a direction that's in my favor.