Question about sideplate numbering convention - Page 2

wayne8661 · 09-02-2016, 11:10 AM

I will look at mine when I get home today. You want the info on 1911-1918 dated pistols only?

Vlim · 09-02-2016, 11:19 AM

Just went through a few drawers:

DWM 2 digits on the inside bottom of the side plate: confirmed.
Mauser 2 digits on inside, some with 2 first numbers of serial, others with one higher, as reported.
Mauser 3-digit serial number: Only one digit on the inside (150b has a lone 1 on the inside).

Some oddball pistols with different lay-outs, including late war assemblies and a Portuguese contract.

Edward Tinker · 09-02-2016, 11:59 AM

Here are three DWM sideplates. One is a 67 - it is a orphan sideplate

The other two come from guns that are both police, but appear to be original sideplates.

1st one is the 67 - front is last two of 78

2nd one interior # is 7 - which came off my matching 724 -exterior is 24

3rd one interior # is 32 - which comes off an original sn of 3242 - exterior is 42
(which comes off of an interesting one, one of those with the #8 in the front of the original 4 digits. So its sn now is 83242)

DonVoigt · 09-02-2016, 01:18 PM

Thanks Guys, much appreciated.

Wayne,
we were looking at military which would be all dated 1911-18, except for the few 1920/21.

But please do look at any and all you wish and report.

Any information is better than none.

Thanks again.

Tom and Mark,
would be great to hear from you on side plate numbers you may have.

wayne8661 · 09-02-2016, 01:40 PM

ok here are mine'

1917 DWM Artillery SN 7227 inside of side plate 72
1912 DWM SN 7954 inside of side plate SMALL 8
1912 DWM SN 5275 inside of side plate 2 on lower edge and 5 on flate part of plate near retaining pin
1910 DWM SN 2557c Inside of side plate 5 on lower edge and 5 on flat part of plate near retaining pin
1910 DWM SN 1344d Mark that looks like a 3 but could be machine marks no numbers visible
1918 Erfurt SN 5031 On long prt of ear that takedown lever locks over is a 12 and the erfurt proof on trigger lever.

DonVoigt · 09-02-2016, 02:42 PM

Thanks Wayne,
Looks like DWM was "deciding" how to do the numbers in in 1910-12.

Could you post a picture of 5275 and/or 2557c?

wayne8661 · 09-02-2016, 02:51 PM

I will be glad to post pictures but I will have to wait until Monday I'm on my way to the shore

rhuff · 09-02-2016, 04:17 PM

I just checked two of my alphabet DWM Lugers, and both of them have the first two numbers stamped inside the sideplate. One is an early "i"(1921) and the other a "k" suffix(1923-24).

mrerick · 09-02-2016, 06:31 PM

I'll be glad to check some when I can access them again.

kurusu · 09-02-2016, 06:34 PM

Went look at my 1915 DWM:

Got confused as ever.

Only number inside the plate is a 2 on the lower edge, placed in a fore and aft disposition instead of athwart ship as the others shown.

# 7293 no suffix.

Marked 93 outside. Everything matching except for the rear toggle pin and magazine (came with a synthetic bottom Fxo)

Doubt it to have been boosted. It already has an unnumbered rear toggle pin and the finish even though original, has been over aggressively treated, presumably to eliminate surface rust, to the point of having the proof marks barely visible and a very shallow date over the chamber.

It's not one of my shooters. Not because of its collector value but because of its age.

DonVoigt · 09-02-2016, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kurusu

Went look at my 1915 DWM:

Got confused as ever.

Only number inside the plate is a 2 on the lower edge, placed fore and aft instead of athwart ship as the others shown.

# 7293 no suffix.

Marked 93 outside. Everything matching except for the rear toggle pin and magazine (came with a synthetic bottom Fxo)

Doubt it to have been boosted. It already has an unnumbered rear toggle pin and the finish even though original, has been over aggressively treated, presumably to eliminate surface rust, to the point of having the proof marks barely visible and a very shallow date over the chamber.

It's not one of my shooters. Not because of its collector value but because of its age.

Interesting "nautical" description!

At least the "2" on the inside makes sense with the serial number.

With just the "2", the last two digits would not repeat for 1000 numbers; probably more than enough to return the correct plate to its pistol.

Thanks for looking.

kurusu · 09-02-2016, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Interesting "nautical" description!

Best I could manage.

Edward Tinker · 09-02-2016, 06:46 PM

A 1915 DWM would have an unnumbered rear toggle pin

They did not require it until 1934 (?) or close to that date - a numbered pin prior to the early 1930's means it was added - could be armorer, armory or the factory, or someone who thought it would correct an issue...

kurusu · 09-02-2016, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

A 1915 DWM would have an unnumbered rear toggle pin

They did not require it until 1934 (?) or close to that date - a numbered pin prior to the early 1930's means it was added - could be armorer, armory or the factory, or someone who thought it would correct an issue...

Well! That's good news.

kurusu · 09-02-2016, 07:41 PM

Might as well add the 2 Mauser shooters:

1938 S/42 - The two first digits of the serial number inside the two last outside.

41 BYF - Same as above.

Mac Cat · 09-02-2016, 09:40 PM

Swiss Alphabet (1921) S/N 2049 i, has a "20" in the same size font at the bottom where the trigger pin cut out is found. It also has tiny "1" in the middle of the plate, but sideways and of course, nothing on the outside.

1917 DMW LP08 = S/N 803 c, has an "8" in the Trigger Pin cutout, just like my Swiss, and it also had a "1" sideways in the middle of the plate. The outside has the "03" you would expect.

"byf" 42, S/N 2011 l, has a "27" inside and the "11" outside.

spacecoast · 09-03-2016, 07:28 AM

My 1918/1920 DWM, #7500b, has a 74 stamped on the flat inside the side plate.

DonVoigt · 09-03-2016, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spacecoast

My 1918/1920 DWM, #7500b, has a 74 stamped on the flat inside the side plate.

Well, that is interesting for sure!

Factory error or incorrectly restored or changed/re-numbered in 1920????

More potential questions than answers in that one.

But at least there IS a number stamped inside!

Thanks for posting.

George Anderson · 09-03-2016, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spacecoast

My 1918/1920 DWM, #7500b, has a 74 stamped on the flat inside the side plate.

Sounds like one that was boosted by a person using the Mauser protocol.

Edward Tinker · 09-03-2016, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Anderson

Sounds like one that was boosted by a person using the Mauser protocol.

Many times I think it is lack of knowledge. I read on facebook or another forum where someone quotes an old book or a poorly written book on 'well-known' facts that are outdated theories.

Such as the interior numbers on a sideplate, I have heard folks say it was on all lugers. Until recently I did not know that DWM marked theirs.

The 1920 marking - some guy said that it was to show arsenal rebuild and that they were okay for sale commercially-had never heard that one before.

09-02-2016, 11:59 AM	#23
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Here are three DWM sideplates. One is a 67 - it is a orphan sideplate The other two come from guns that are both police, but appear to be original sideplates. 1st one is the 67 - front is last two of 78 2nd one interior # is 7 - which came off my matching 724 -exterior is 24 3rd one interior # is 32 - which comes off an original sn of 3242 - exterior is 42 (which comes off of an interesting one, one of those with the #8 in the front of the original 4 digits. So its sn now is 83242) Attached Thumbnails

09-02-2016, 01:18 PM	#24
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,347 Times in 2,038 Posts	Thanks Guys, much appreciated. Wayne, we were looking at military which would be all dated 1911-18, except for the few 1920/21. But please do look at any and all you wish and report. Any information is better than none. Thanks again. Tom and Mark, would be great to hear from you on side plate numbers you may have. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

09-02-2016, 02:42 PM	#26
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,347 Times in 2,038 Posts	Thanks Wayne, Looks like DWM was "deciding" how to do the numbers in in 1910-12. Could you post a picture of 5275 and/or 2557c? __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

09-02-2016, 06:31 PM	#29
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	I'll be glad to check some when I can access them again. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

09-02-2016, 11:10 AM	#21
wayne8661 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kennett Square Pennsylvania Posts: 591 Thanks: 15 Thanked 334 Times in 104 Posts	I will look at mine when I get home today. You want the info on 1911-1918 dated pistols only?

09-02-2016, 11:19 AM	#22
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,032 Thanks: 1,018 Thanked 3,873 Times in 1,184 Posts	Just went through a few drawers: DWM 2 digits on the inside bottom of the side plate: confirmed. Mauser 2 digits on inside, some with 2 first numbers of serial, others with one higher, as reported. Mauser 3-digit serial number: Only one digit on the inside (150b has a lone 1 on the inside). Some oddball pistols with different lay-outs, including late war assemblies and a Portuguese contract.

09-02-2016, 01:40 PM	#25
wayne8661 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kennett Square Pennsylvania Posts: 591 Thanks: 15 Thanked 334 Times in 104 Posts	ok here are mine' 1917 DWM Artillery SN 7227 inside of side plate 72 1912 DWM SN 7954 inside of side plate SMALL 8 1912 DWM SN 5275 inside of side plate 2 on lower edge and 5 on flate part of plate near retaining pin 1910 DWM SN 2557c Inside of side plate 5 on lower edge and 5 on flat part of plate near retaining pin 1910 DWM SN 1344d Mark that looks like a 3 but could be machine marks no numbers visible 1918 Erfurt SN 5031 On long prt of ear that takedown lever locks over is a 12 and the erfurt proof on trigger lever.

09-02-2016, 02:51 PM	#27
wayne8661 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kennett Square Pennsylvania Posts: 591 Thanks: 15 Thanked 334 Times in 104 Posts	I will be glad to post pictures but I will have to wait until Monday I'm on my way to the shore

09-02-2016, 04:17 PM	#28
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,270 Thanks: 2,686 Thanked 958 Times in 704 Posts	I just checked two of my alphabet DWM Lugers, and both of them have the first two numbers stamped inside the sideplate. One is an early "i"(1921) and the other a "k" suffix(1923-24).

09-02-2016, 06:34 PM	#30
kurusu User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,225 Thanks: 2,679 Thanked 929 Times in 509 Posts	Went look at my 1915 DWM: Got confused as ever. Only number inside the plate is a 2 on the lower edge, placed in a fore and aft disposition instead of athwart ship as the others shown. # 7293 no suffix. Marked 93 outside. Everything matching except for the rear toggle pin and magazine (came with a synthetic bottom Fxo) Doubt it to have been boosted. It already has an unnumbered rear toggle pin and the finish even though original, has been over aggressively treated, presumably to eliminate surface rust, to the point of having the proof marks barely visible and a very shallow date over the chamber. It's not one of my shooters. Not because of its collector value but because of its age.

09-02-2016, 06:46 PM	#33
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	A 1915 DWM would have an unnumbered rear toggle pin They did not require it until 1934 (?) or close to that date - a numbered pin prior to the early 1930's means it was added - could be armorer, armory or the factory, or someone who thought it would correct an issue...

09-02-2016, 07:41 PM	#35
kurusu User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,225 Thanks: 2,679 Thanked 929 Times in 509 Posts	Might as well add the 2 Mauser shooters: 1938 S/42 - The two first digits of the serial number inside the two last outside. 41 BYF - Same as above.

09-02-2016, 09:40 PM	#36
Mac Cat Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 670 Thanks: 2,009 Thanked 542 Times in 292 Posts	Swiss Alphabet (1921) S/N 2049 i, has a "20" in the same size font at the bottom where the trigger pin cut out is found. It also has tiny "1" in the middle of the plate, but sideways and of course, nothing on the outside. 1917 DMW LP08 = S/N 803 c, has an "8" in the Trigger Pin cutout, just like my Swiss, and it also had a "1" sideways in the middle of the plate. The outside has the "03" you would expect. "byf" 42, S/N 2011 l, has a "27" inside and the "11" outside.

09-03-2016, 07:28 AM	#37
spacecoast User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: FL and PA Posts: 332 Thanks: 276 Thanked 243 Times in 109 Posts	My 1918/1920 DWM, #7500b, has a 74 stamped on the flat inside the side plate.